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Peakbouldering.info (Read 50735 times)

Barratt

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#25 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 09:05:51 am
I would consider chucking some free/extremely cheap hosting in as sponsorship. Might even extend this to some technical/creative help to resolve the clunky tech/user journey issues.

PM me if interested.

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#26 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 11:37:54 am
Having it hosted where it currently is or on UKB's rosehosting won't make much difference to that really.

It's also not just about security, also useabilty and profile: a formal UKB link and improved design will help establish it as the main site for peak bouldering info. I can see a proliferation of these things otherwise, already there is this site, UKC, wikitopo, and various other minor sites, and new significant websites can appear very quickly on the back of the hard work of others..

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#27 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 11:49:36 am
Use-ability comes down to how the sites been written by GarethC and isn't related to where its hosted.

My guess would be this is some sort of LAMP set up so theres a database sitting in the background holding all the data on problem names, grades, descriptions, votes etc. (images seem to be hosted, but videos linked from YouTube/Vimeo).

Personally I think its very useable at present, areas are sensibly grouped and its straight-forward to get down to a specific area using the embedded Google Maps or the text descriptions, its easy and straight-forward to register and log ascents/opinions.

What do you (and others) think is missing (that is perhaps present on other sites) at present?  You say you think the data/info might be lifted to an "easier to use database and take away traffic" so what features would that hypothetical plagiarism have that are currently not featured on peakbouldering.info?


Profile is also in no way connected to where the site is hosted at all but can be raised by having it linked from UKB front page, getting it promoted in google searches etc. etc.

Paul B

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#28 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 12:05:32 pm
personally I'd say a more usable menu (structure is great but if you don't know exactly where something is there's a bit of backing and forth; top down as in bleau.info menu bar?) and more priority given to the maps (I know you can collapse everything else), as when screen real estate is at a premium they tend to get squished!

(Its a damn good effort getting all of that info onto a working website btw).

slackline

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#29 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 12:08:57 pm
as when screen real estate is at a premium they tend to get squished!

Perhaps some savvy browser detection and conditional CSS with/without redirection to a "mobile" optimised site if you're browsing from a smart phone would be useful.

(Its a damn good effort getting all of that info onto a working website btw).

 :agree: a lot of work has gone into this already, good work GarethC  :bow:

Paul B

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#30 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 12:10:34 pm
Perhaps some savvy browser detection and conditional CSS with/without redirection to a "mobile" optimised site if you're browsing from a smart phone would be useful.

Its the netbook actually.

Bonjoy

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#31 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 12:26:31 pm
I tend to navigate to problems/crags by putting in the name of a known problemin the search bar. This seems a lot quicker as some of the pages can take a while to open making other ways of navigating around slower. The search function works well and quickly.

slackline

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#32 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 12:37:49 pm
personally I'd say a more usable menu (structure is great but if you don't know exactly where something is there's a bit of backing and forth; top down as in bleau.info menu bar?)

So implementing the menus via java-script so they expand and collapse without reloading the page/redirecting to the next page?

tommytwotone

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#33 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 12:47:15 pm
A few observations from me - feel free to take ot leave. Great effort guys, really hope this gets bedded in and accepted as the "industry standard" for Peak info.

In general I'd be thinking about "what do other sites like this (i.e. Bleau.info and YG) do well - if they're the standard-bearers for this type of site then I'd shamelessly copy anything they're doing that works.

Conversely, is there anything they do badly? You don't want to trip over the same things they have.

Good stuff:

Pictures

Like the popup thing for photos - think that works a lot better than, say bleau.info's interface

Volume / accuracy of info

Clearly excellent, sure this will only get better over time

Signup process

Simple and quick - exactly what is needed here

Improvements:

Main page

The functions in the top right took me a while to find - could they be added as tabs under the main header?

Area Descriptions

Not sure about "Top 20 Problems " being the default here - I'd kind of expect either alphabetical or grade order.

If I'm planning a trip to Burbage North I'm either looking for something specific, or how much there is at / around my grade.

At present Bling Fig is the second thing I see in the list...it may be great, but this 7a punter isn't getting up that in a month of Sundays!

Problem Descriptions

Within each description, not sure about "properties" being the most important of the three categories - from using other sites like this (mainly bleau.info and YG) I'd be (personally) interested in seeing, in order of priority:

i) Is it high / low in the grade - don't want to sandbag myself
ii) Some pics / vids - I want some sneaky beta / work out if it's reachy
iii) Any other info - style, bad landing etc etc

I'd maybe move "Grades" to the top in the description itself.

Again, this is just my point of view, feel free to disregard or use - like Barratt I've got a background in this area, PM me if you want any help.


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#34 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 01:06:31 pm
To Gareth etc, would you like me to look into having the BMC sponsor it somehow? Is cash the thing you're short of, or is it mainly your time?

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#35 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 02:18:32 pm
I'd support tommytwotone's points plus add:

. there are viewing issues with photos moving around the screen, sometimes covering the menus, when loading from some browsers (not as bad as it was though).

. better maps & links between problems (especially for the new stuff)!

. use font and V and UK tech grades I know this will pain some on UKB but the BMC guides use V/UK tech grades and (also have converters from the old B grades somewhere)

. others mentioned some stuff to me a while back... I'll see if I can get it again to check nothing's been missed.


PS Grimer... yes please from me as a BMC editor and ongoing guidebook worker

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#36 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 02:24:14 pm
. there are viewing issues with photos moving around the screen, sometimes covering the menus, when loading from some browsers (not as bad as it was though).

Which browser would be useful if there is any hope for it being rectified (although if its that piece of crap that is Internet Explorer I wouldn't hold out much hope as its one of the least compliant browsers and completely fails to meet the HTML specification laid out by the W3C so if you get a web-page rendering fine in IE then it will likely not be using the correct HTML specification and won't render, see for example this).

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#37 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 02:28:09 pm
"its that piece of crap that is Internet Explorer I wouldn't hold out much hope "

Although I fully sypathise with your view, that's not the most viable attitude for a mainstream site.

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#38 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 02:38:08 pm
Which browser would be useful if there is any hope for it being rectified (although if its that piece of crap that is Internet Explorer I wouldn't hold out much hope as its one of the least compliant browsers and completely fails to meet the HTML specification laid out by the W3C so if you get a web-page rendering fine in IE then it will likely not be using the correct HTML specification and won't render, see for example this).

 :wank:

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#39 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 02:42:44 pm
Just remembered anther one. Commonly used boulder names don't always come up on a search. I'll try and get a list of the BMC guide ones that don't work. There will probably be a similar issue with problem that has two  names or has changed name.

Duma

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#40 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 02:51:39 pm
. use font and V and UK tech grades I know this will pain some on UKB but the BMC guides use V/UK tech grades and (also have converters from the old B grades somewhere)
Thing is, eventually we'll settle on one system for this country - and given that I like font grades (needn't go into the debate here), I think a resource like this should be using them, rather than prolonging the mish mash that currently exists by having three grades by each problem. Better would be to have hypertext (not sure this is the right word) for each font grade that'd bring up the equivalent V grade(s) when you hover the mouse pointer over it.

nai

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#41 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 02:58:47 pm
Quote from: ttt
Not sure about "Top 20 Problems " being the default here - I'd kind of expect either alphabetical or grade order.

If I'm planning a trip to Burbage North I'm either looking for something specific, or how much there is at / around my grade.

At present Bling Fig is the second thing I see in the list...it may be great, but this 7a punter isn't getting up that in a month of Sundays!

I quite like this feature but at present it doesn't work too well, certainly for whole areas. e.g. all the "top" Eastern Grit problems are at Plantation then mostly crags beginning with B, etc.  After star rating the sort criteria seems to be the DataBbase number allocated to the crag, this would sort itself out in time but maybe using number of votes cast would be a better second-sort criteria.

Also, the ability to log multiple problems would be good and might encourage folk to record more of the stuff they've done previously, I realise this would probably take a major reworking though.

Otherwise, awesoe stuff, well done everyone involved.


Bonjoy

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#42 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 03:34:24 pm
. use font and V and UK tech grades I know this will pain some on UKB but the BMC guides use V/UK tech grades and (also have converters from the old B grades somewhere)
Thing is, eventually we'll settle on one system for this country - and given that I like font grades (needn't go into the debate here), I think a resource like this should be using them, rather than prolonging the mish mash that currently exists by having three grades by each problem. Better would be to have hypertext (not sure this is the right word) for each font grade that'd bring up the equivalent V grade(s) when you hover the mouse pointer over it.
I agree. I think in time the UK will fully adopt the font system for grading boulder problems. We are after all a European nation, why have an American grade system.
Unfortunately the BMC jumped the wrong way at the start of the current grit guide series at a time when it was not clear which system would become favoured and understandably, to avoid inconsistency within the series have been lumbered with V grades ever since. This doesn’t change the fact that the UK will opt for font grades in the long run.
Websites and books continuing to use V grades is retrograde (no pun intended) and simply prolonging the misery. If climbers don’t understand the font system by now really they should put in the 5 minutes of effort required to figure it out. The sooner books and sites stop using V grades the sooner the UK will get used to using one grading system.

tommytwotone

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#43 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 03:38:34 pm
. use font and V and UK tech grades I know this will pain some on UKB but the BMC guides use V/UK tech grades and (also have converters from the old B grades somewhere)
Thing is, eventually we'll settle on one system for this country - and given that I like font grades (needn't go into the debate here), I think a resource like this should be using them, rather than prolonging the mish mash that currently exists by having three grades by each problem. Better would be to have hypertext (not sure this is the right word) for each font grade that'd bring up the equivalent V grade(s) when you hover the mouse pointer over it.
I agree. I think in time the UK will fully adopt the font system for grading boulder problems. We are after all a European nation, why have an American grade system.
Unfortunately the BMC jumped the wrong way at the start of the current grit guide series at a time when it was not clear which system would become favoured and understandably, to avoid inconsistency within the series have been lumbered with V grades ever since. This doesn’t change the fact that the UK will opt for font grades in the long run.
Websites and books continuing to use V grades is retrograde (no pun intended) and simply prolonging the misery. If climbers don’t understand the font system by now really they should put in the 5 minutes of effort required to figure it out. The sooner books and sites stop using V grades the sooner the UK will get used to using one grading system.

Amen to that sir.

Back to "what does the competition do well?" - they all use Font grades...

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#44 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 03:48:42 pm
"its that piece of crap that is Internet Explorer I wouldn't hold out much hope "

Although I fully sympathise with your view, that's not the most viable attitude for a mainstream site.

I guess that means, in an occluded way, that you are having problems with the site rendering on IE (version details would also be useful too).

@GarethC : For what its worth it all renders fine in Firefox-3.6.13, Icecat-3.6.13 (which is essentially Firefox as its the same gecko engine under the hood) and Opera-11.01-1190.

fried

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#45 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 03:51:40 pm
Fantastic work Gareth.

Just some little negative points:-

As mentioned the Top 20 problems seems not the best place to start nagivating from. Also when you use the complete list, check out a photo/video then go back a page, the browser goes back to the Top 20 list, not the complete list. I prefer Bleau.infos system of a page with embedded video/ photo.

Also for people like me who don't know the area (haven't climbed in the peak since '96 and that was before bouldering was invented :P) a bit more info on finding boulders/ (and topos if that doesn't step on anyones toes!)

It would be good to see the two sites merge, could become an even better/ more extensive resource.

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#46 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 04:10:51 pm
Unfortunately the BMC jumped the wrong way at the start of the current grit guide series at a time when it was not clear which system would become favoured and understandably, to avoid inconsistency within the series have been lumbered with V grades ever since. This doesn’t change the fact that the UK will opt for font grades in the long run.

Don't want to labour this old chestnut and I am fully aware I'm the 'stranger' here with my view. I' know most boulders feel this way but most chuffing punters still feel the opposite and they outnumber you (and buy more guides). Font grades and UK tech don't mix well. Also Font grades below 6 are all over the place in Font. So I can see why UK tech grades are very much wanted by punter chuffers who boulder a bit.

I'd be more than happy with a main font grade and a maybe V/UK mouse hover facilty (and a grade table somewhere). Easy to delete in the utopian future when UK tech and Font are realigned (that is where they came from after all!). I'd add that  the Rockfax chuffing guides also use V grades.

Andy B

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#47 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 04:23:17 pm
Just remembered anther one. Commonly used boulder names don't always come up on a search. I'll try and get a list of the BMC guide ones that don't work. There will probably be a similar issue with problem that has two  names or has changed name.

When inputting crags, boulders, problems etc. I didn't just use BMC guides as a reference, so given that different boulders and problem have different names in different sources this is bound to happen. When there was a choice I made judgements based on the most up to date and accurate info as I saw it. Although I know a lot of work goes into the bouldering sections of the BMC guides there are still a fair few mistakes and I have corrected as many of these as I could when adding stuff to the site, which means some info that you think you know may be wrong. Likewise there are certainly mistakes on the site too (those are the ones that Robin put in ;)).

Andy B

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#48 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 04:36:38 pm

Unfortunately the BMC jumped the wrong way at the start of the current grit guide series at a time when it was not clear which system would become favoured and understandably, to avoid inconsistency within the series have been lumbered with V grades ever since. This doesn’t change the fact that the UK will opt for font grades in the long run.

... I' know most boulders feel this way but most chuffing punters still feel the opposite and they outnumber you (and buy more guides)...I can see why UK tech grades are very much wanted by punter chuffers who boulder a bit.

Whilst I'm sure that is true, what do you think the ratio will be for those using peakbouldering.info?

Personally I suspect the majority will be in the font grades camp. I may be wrong, but if I bouldered only occasionally, and in the 3s to 6s (V0 to V5) grade range I think I would have enough info in the guides already, without bothering to trawl websites for the most comprehensive and up to date info on problems.

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#49 Re: Peakbouldering.info
February 16, 2011, 04:50:09 pm
I'm not going to labour the point either but can we have an end to this nonsensical idea that V grades make more sense because Font grades at the bottom end are "all over the place".

At least with the Font system there ARE lower grades, with the V system you get down to V0 (which apparently can be anything from about 4 to 6A) and that's it.

Grades are subjective and everywhere has it's fair share of sandbags in the lower grades. When there are thousands and thousands of lower grade problems as you get in Font of course some are going to be way out and some people are going to find problems easier or harder than their mates. Get over it.

Oh and everyone I know uses Font grades no matter how hard they climb. I'll shut up now.

 

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