[surfchimpster]

A Chappy posted this on Yorkshiregrit but no response, I'm  wondering exactly the same ...

"I'm a bit confused by this problem. I've done it with stacked pads straight up and I can see someone really tall doing it this way without stacked pads. However it looks like a better (and more honest for normal height people) problem starting slightly left and moving across to the obvious holds. I've only managed the first move of this though, getting my right hand to a high hold but failing to match it. Any knowledge? "

Is cheat matt ok for the shorty ?

please help..cheers ..Matt

[surfchimpster]

Ok giving my self my own beta here...

Asked around and it seems like it does start on the right with a lank or stacked pads

starting left as above does seem the way forward on this one though harder and a better line

Think it would warrant the 7c+ grade this way

maybe the two Different names its got are for the left and for the right lank

waite /welsh rarebait or whatever

good to clear this baby up as it is a quality line

[webbo]

i doubt it starts from stacked pads as it was done before they were around.

[Johnny Brown]

Nah, pads were around then, it won't have started off them though - the whole point was to climb the feature from the floor. Pretty sure the two names is just from being done separately by two people around the same time. How tall are you? Its definitely possible for the average amongst us, if not the midget demographic. Wobble might have more beta on the sequence

[Tom de Gay]

I always used to wonder how on earth you were supposed to get off the ground on this, until the Wobble suggested I stand on a folded pad to reach the start holds - and I don't recall shouts of 'back around' from JB when I did it. Although pulling off the ground might well be the crux, laybacking up that groove is the best bit of the problem, regardless of grade. There's a moody black and white pic of Christian Durkin doing it in Pantontino's Yorkshire Bouldering article in Climber from around '98. We might find this hard to believe today, but back then no-one found it necessary to say how many pads he used, how tall is (+ ape index), which starting holds are allowed or whether he French started. I'm glad standards have moved on...

[surfchimpster]

Thanks for the replies...

There's a moody black and white pic of Christian Durkin doing it in Pantontino's Yorkshire Bouldering article in Climber from around '98. We might find this hard to believe today, but back then no-one found it necessary to say how many pads he used, how tall is (+ ape index), which starting holds are allowed or whether he French started. I'm glad standards have moved on...

I'm 5.8 on a good day.

I could probably reach it with a thick pad.

Always liked that photo, think I've still got that article somewhere.

Find it annoying when the start of a probem is not clear, find it taints the problem somewhat and if you do it
in the back of your mind theres always that niggling doubt about grades... come on you know its true ...yes thats wright even you mister "I dont care about grades"

[Tom de Gay]

I'm 5.8 on a good day.

Same here

in the back of your mind theres always that niggling doubt about grades... come on you know its true ...yes thats wright even you mister "I dont care about grades"

Not in my mind. If it was good enough for the Wobble and JB, it's good enough for me.

[andy_e]

Wobble's word is gospel.

[Tom de Gay]

Wobble's word is gospel.

On a related note, that Pantontino article is just great. It's like the Old Testament for Yorkshire Bouldering.

and Lo! He didst do Zoo York and didst find it 'not to bad', and thus it was graded V7

[Johnny Brown]

I'm 5.8 on a good day.

Same here

And here. Back in '98 I believed this was fairly average, nowadays its definitely not. Damn these modern humans and their nutritious diets.

If it was good enough for the Wobble and JB, it's good enough for me.

Think I remember Wobble bagging an early ascent. I've never thought of him as tall, though he's not short. I don't remember the stacked pads either but do recall just being able to reach the start holds. Keen to get back to Caley in the next couple of months, don't get there enough nowadays. You still climbing Tom?

[Tom de Gay]

You still climbing Tom?

Yep; living in the schmoke offers plenty of opportunities for training but few for application, so it's good to come on here to read about how certain problems at Millstone should be started keep up with recent developments.

[Nemo]

Pads in 1990  - you’re havin a laugh…  Matt is 6ft ish though!

It is a quality line, but unfortunately it’s not really that great a problem.  This does start on the right, stretching for the poor, conditions dependent LH pinch at base of groove and the RH on slopey thing.   I’m pretty sure I did this off a bit of carpet (I’m 5’10).  Definitely didn’t need folded pads but I may have used one - it's a long time ago...   But I think El Mocho and others had to use folded / stacked pads to reach.   I do remember needing to be absolutely on tiptoes right in against the crag (totally out of balance) to barely reach the holds and put LF on – basically you’ve done the crux before you’re foot leaves the ground!

It’s a weird problem - you don’t really do any hard climbing as such… - the only tricky move is to take your RF of the deck and hold the swing.  After that it’s much easier.  Everyone I know has climbed this the same way – and most thought very odd 7B+ was appropriate…  It is an obvious problem to come in from the left, but I think it will probably be quite a bit harder – although I don’t know anyone who’s done it (or even tried much) that way…  but they may well have by now for all I know.  (surfchimpster – mildly curious - when you said it was 7C+ that way, was that from having done it, or taking a guess after having a play – it wasn’t clear?)

As for the name – it doesn’t have anything to do with different sequences.  Andy Swann and Christian Durkin both climbed this around the same time in 1995 – Andy called it Waite, Christian called it Welsh Rarebit.  But as it turns out, Matt Birch climbed it way back in 1990 but hadn’t named it.  So take your pick for the name really although I think most now call it Waite. 

[Johnny Brown]

Good knowledge word.

Wobble's word is gospel.

Indeed.

[surfchimpster]

(surfchimpster – mildly curious - when you said it was 7C+ that way, was that from having done it, or taking a guess after having a play – it wasn’t clear?)

As for the name – it doesn’t have anything to do with different sequences.  Andy Swann and Christian Durkin both climbed this around the same time in 1995 – Andy called it Waite, Christian called it Welsh Rarebit.  But as it turns out, Matt Birch climbed it way back in 1990 but hadn’t named it.  So take your pick for the name really although I think most now call it Waite. 

Thanks for clearing things up Nemo... cheers

I haven't tried it cos i wasn't sure how it started, that's what prompted the post, but i thought the 7c+ was the original grade int old guide that's what made me think maybe the harder grade was for the left start .Think it gets 7c for the original lets call it tip toe start. Thanks for the replies!

[Will Hunt]

I finished editing the Caley script for our guidebook and sent it out for feedback. One definitely-not-a-short-arse commentator asked why this wasn't marked up as a french start. So here I am, and it seems the verdict is that the short nowadays would probably use a couple of pads to reach the holds, but that most people should be fine, and also that the crux is pulling on.
I just wondered whether anything has changed in the last 9 years or so. I don't hear about Waite getting done very much - is it getting done and, regardless of what the "rules" might be, how are people choosing to start?

[Johnny Brown]

I've nothing to add to Wobble's reply above.

But French would seem to be the wrong word as I don't think you could jump into it. Unless French start now means a pad stack? Unless the very tall can jump past the pull-on?

[El Mocho]

Nothing to add re original Waite stuff. I do think Ned has done a lower start? I think I remember him showing me a photo of him on it. I could be completely wrong though.

[Will Hunt]

Okey doke. I've added into the text that the starting holds are high which should make it clear that you can do whatever your morphology demands to get to them with a clear conscience - the most logical thing nowadays being to layer the pads a bit.

Thanks, both. (No idea who Wobble is because I'm not from Sheffield and only first drew breath in 1989).

[El Mocho]

(No idea who Wobble is because I'm not from Sheffield and only first drew breath in 1989).

  does anybody really know the Wobble? The man, the myth, the jackets, the glasses... as someone editing the caley script there should be a clue in another boulder problem name nearby...

[Will Hunt]

(No idea who Wobble is because I'm not from Sheffield and only first drew breath in 1989).

  does anybody really know the Wobble? The man, the myth, the jackets, the glasses... as someone editing the caley script there should be a clue in another boulder problem name nearby...

Gotcha! I've actually taken that one out.

[teestub]

Gotcha! I've actually taken that one out.

Why?

[Johnny Brown]

PUT IT BACK IN.

[Will Hunt]

Right, you cunts, it's back in. I am never talking about the vagaries of picking routes for a select guide ever again.

[dunnyg]

TAKE IT OUT

[fatneck]