[Robsons]

Have had my BM 2000 since Oct 2010 and am really seeing some good progression - bar my back two! 
I was training them as the other fingers, but I kept feeling a straining feeling going down my forearms whilst holding. I ignored this at first, thinking it was due to them being underused - never would purely use back two!
Over the last two weeks, I have missed out the back two due to this -
Is this wise? Shall I build up to back two and train back 3 for a while to build strength?

What did/do you guys do?

Cheers,

Robin

[yorkshireman]

am in a similar boat and ive put it down to the use of back two just feeling really strange as much as being weaker.

[apharri]

I started out using back three before moving to back two and did the same thing when i moved onto one armed hangs. Its quite a strange sensation when you first start using back two (or it was to me), felt as though something was going to pull inside my forearm. I noticed ths began to fade as the grip got stronger but I spent a winter getting my back three strong before moving to back two

[Nibile]

back2 are the hardest for me, I think also because I had really bad injuries to my ring fingers, which, I think, bear the biggest effort.
I think it's normal to feel the strain down the forearms. back2 seem to work differently. with a lot of patience I have gone through the pain and from being barely able to hang on, I had really good progresses.
on another hand, I have a couple of friends who could hang them forever on their first session.
?

oh, and yes get back3 strong and be patient and disciplined.

[Lund]

If it's soreness as opposed to a pain (soreness you can stand - pain makes you wanna stop) in the belly of the muscle, it's normal.  It's because you're WEAK.

My advice - do deadhangs.  If you can't do a whole minute, then add do it for as long as you can at once, then do it again and repeat until all the short goes add up to a minute.  Then go and drink beer.  Repeat this once or twice a week - with a decent gap in between.  Eventually, when you get to say 40seconds in one go, then you can start doing repeaters and encores on those holds.  When that's easy, move to the smaller pocket and start over.  By the time your liver is fucked from all the beer, you'll have nails back two.

If you get pain in your forearm, man up.  It's the muscle taking the pain, and it'll grow back stronger.  If on the other hand, it's your elbow or God forbid in the fingers  then go and drink lots of beer and forget about training on the fingerboard for a little while.

Back three... by all means, train that.  But if it's too easy, then you'll need to remove a digit.  Or an arm.  But a digit is easier to remove.  Less chopping.

[lagerstarfish]

back two one side, back three the other

also, back three angled towards the centre - so that more weight is on the pinkie. if this doesn't make sense ,I could post a pic, but I am a lazy cvnt...

[yorkshireman]

Or back 3 adding weight to start with

[Dexter]

pain is just weakness leaving the body
that pain is just you getting stronger 

[Robsons]

Thanks for the replies - good to know...I'll train back 3, then go back in a few weeks!
Cheers, Robin.

[tomtom]

IO2, I've had this forearm 'tweak' a couple of years ago, from pulling my LH ring finger on the pocket in the crucifix low traverse at Almscliff... more like pulling a  muscle deep in the forearm.. it was fine too about a week later.

For the OP, if you can't hang the back two feet off then just hang them with feet on the back of a chair set back from the BM a couple of ft etc.. Thats actually how I normally warm up - do the same hangs I was planning but with feet on - at varying distances from the BM. Works the same fingers/tendons but just to a lesser degree.

[Robsons]

Interesting!
I could hang them when I first got the BM (feet off) and saw steady increases over the periods of training - up to 7.3 seconds...but more latterly felt this so called "tweak". The same experience for me being - it didn't really hurt at all the day after.
A friend of mine who used to use the moon board got the BM after my recommendation recently and had this "tweak" from using the back two and is now suffering a couple of weeks after...his tweak was much further down the forearm - in fact it is more in his wrist?
From the sounds of things, I think it is just a common feeling - but I am more inclined to do a bit of back 3 training (didn't do any before) - to get a better foundation strength in before returning to back two.

Thanks again.

[Fultonius]

Obviously the bathroom scales approach should only be used in the privacy of own home as I am sure it looks ridiculous ...

I'm not sure the scales make any difference - I'm pretty sure all forms of beastmakering look pretty ridiculous!

[chris05]

Obviously the bathroom scales approach should only be used in the privacy of own home as I am sure it looks ridiculous ...

I'm not sure the scales make any difference - I'm pretty sure all forms of beastmakering look pretty ridiculous!

I'm pretty sure I look cool as fuck when beastmaking..... 

[SA Chris]

My fingers pinged out of the holds when I was trying to deadhang on back two a while back. Forearms hurt and felt tweaky for about a week after, but were fine  after that.

[shark]

. Obviously the bathroom scales approach should only be used in the privacy of own home as I am sure it looks ridiculous ...

Screw what people think. There was some knob on UKC who observed that boulderers sanding their fingertips was "taking over from frantic toothbrushing of holds as the best way to advertise your immense talent to the punters without having to climb anything". Tosser.

In for a penny in for a pound I say - tops off power and kiss both biceps and power scream before getting on the scales.

Just remember some misguided people thought that buildering in public places in multi-coloured lycra was ridiculous once upon a time 

[honroid]

Resurrecting this old topic as there are some relevant posts on here and hoping for some more to add to it.

A bit of background: My back 2 progression is steady - slow but steady. As Robsons mentioned above, it all seemed so easy in the beginning; then the tweaks started so I slowed down the progression. I worked some assisted hangs, then worked through some unassisted hangs which is where I am now, looking to move on to repeaters.

My reason for posting: The tweaks I get when hanging the back 2 are in my middle finger. The position of the fingers seems to play a huge role in this. I hang the back 2 and have to keep my middle finger up to the first joint (proximal phalange) in line with the ring finger to avoid tweakage. If I move the middle finger towards the palm (like making a fist) I get ouchies in the middle finger. Just something I noticed and not particularly a problem, just interested to know if anyone else has come across this. Something similar was mentioned above by thesiger.

I assume beasts out there hang the back 2 without a care about the position of the rest of the fingers?

[standard]

Glad this got bumped.
I've 'done' my forearm twice in the same 'feels like a pull' fashion that others have described here.
Mine were both from the ring finger.
it's got better in a few weeks, both times.

so, I just need to knuckle down and back two my BM!

[Nibile]

When isolating fingers the position of the ones that are not inolved in the hang itself is very important, at least to me.
So yes, some positions hurt the non involved fingers. For example, I have to carefully position my thumb when doing index finger monos, otherwise it hurts a lot and I can't complete the hang.
I think it's because the fingers that are not directly involved in the hang are nonetheless involved in keeping everything together...

[honroid]

I see.

I was shocked at how much of a difference the way you set your hand makes to your ability to hold on. On the back 2 my unused fingers naturally want to curl into a fist but as I said it brings the pain. It feels like when hanging the back 2 my middle finger is working hardest of all. So you say this principle transfers directly to monos too, and is probably more noticeable there too.

I think it's because the fingers that are not directly involved in the hang are nonetheless involved in keeping everything together...

Probably a question of trying out slightly different finger positions until you find the one that works. Worth bearing in mind.

[adam_NE5]

I'm busy concentrating on back three at the moment after a spate of injuries over the last few months. I have found that alternating within a set is a pretty good way to progress i.e.
I broke the grip in with some deadhangs with longer periods of rest say 2mins then moved on to alternating with repeaters i.e.

Grab one Front three
Grab two back three
etc etc to seven on repeaters.

just recently I have started rotating full sets i.e. set one back three, set two alternating as before etc etc to seven

seems to work pretty well for me, not sure how well it will work on F2,M2,B2 training but will see when i get there.

[standard]

Steve being Steve.

[Nibile]

Very impressive, especially for such a big man.
Good inspiration.

[rosmat]

Very impressive, especially for such a big man.
Good inspiration.

Although he is small in height, pretty extreme somatype.

[Nibile]

How small?

[rosmat]

Not sure exactly, but approx 5ft 8ish.

According to La Sportiva 173cm.

[Nibile]

 
Still taller than me!

[abarro81]

midget

[Stu Littlefair]

Giant

[a dense loner]

I remember seeing stu at the tor with alex in the middle of winter, they both had big trench coats on n were checking out the finishing moves on hooligan from the ground. I thought this looked a bit odd. Then came an agonising yelp n stu fell to the ground looking like he'd been pole-axed, turned out he'd been on ru's shoulders n his little legs just couldn't take anymore

[Stu Littlefair]

I've lost weight since then.

[Nibile]

I remember seeing stu at the tor with alex in the middle of winter, they both had big trench coats on n were checking out the finishing moves on hooligan from the ground. I thought this looked a bit odd. Then came an agonising yelp n stu fell to the ground looking like he'd been pole-axed, turned out he'd been on ru's shoulders n his little legs just couldn't take anymore

A Surrealistic image. Epic.

[a dense loner]

Currently working in a ships hull, all over the steelwork is marked up "back 2". This just goes to show u never know when this kind of strength is needed. Personally I'd ave marked them up as "wide grip pinches" but what do I know

[Dexter]

these days it all about the devil hang

[lukeinaz]

Resurrecting this old topic as there are some relevant posts on here and hoping for some more to add to it.

A bit of background: My back 2 progression is steady - slow but steady. As Robsons mentioned above, it all seemed so easy in the beginning; then the tweaks started so I slowed down the progression. I worked some assisted hangs, then worked through some unassisted hangs which is where I am now, looking to move on to repeaters.

My reason for posting: The tweaks I get when hanging the back 2 are in my middle finger. The position of the fingers seems to play a huge role in this. I hang the back 2 and have to keep my middle finger up to the first joint (proximal phalange) in line with the ring finger to avoid tweakage. If I move the middle finger towards the palm (like making a fist) I get ouchies in the middle finger. Just something I noticed and not particularly a problem, just interested to know if anyone else has come across this. Something similar was mentioned above by thesiger.

I assume beasts out there hang the back 2 without a care about the position of the rest of the fingers?

I have been working the back two with really great progress after reading some of the posts here.  Some great info.  Today I was working the back two on the 2nd biggest pockets and felt a pop.  Felt like a knuckle cracking and there was no pain.  Now I am noticing that with my other fingers curled up and the ring finger isolated there is much pain and weakness.  Everything seems to be fine when all the other fingers are lined up.  Slopers and four finger feel fine . Probably time for a break..  I might as well learn how to hang the 45s now.

[jmews]

Does anyone else have a massively pronounced difference in length between their pinkie and ring finger?


 My middle finger is longest, followed by my ring finger at about 5mm shorter, and my index at about 20mm shorter than middle. My pinkie is a massive 40mm shorter than my middle, and so 35mm shorter than my ring. When I try and get back two on, it is basically a mono ring crimp with some light support from the pinkie.

[Kingy]

I'm the same, I will never be able to do back 2 training, my pinkie is so much shorter than my ring finger, about 3cm. Im not bothered tho, I dont see many boulder problems that need this grip configuration. I just concentrate on overall crimp strength instead

[TobyD]

Does anyone else have a massively pronounced difference in length between their pinkie and ring finger?

fairly... I'd guess 2cms or just over. The 'specific' back 2 pockets on a BM are fine though, as aren't they deeper where your ring finger sits for exactly this reason?

re the comments earlier in the thread about forearm pain being fine when back 2 hanging. Personally, I'd bin in and do slopers , or core, or have a cup of tea if i got sharp forearm pain on any 2 finger pocket configuration. A good ache MIGHT be ok doing back 2 repeaters, but real pain with anything close to a max hang is probably best to be avoided?

[SA Chris]

My pinkie is a good 3 cm shorter than ring finger, ends just behind the first (or is it last?) knuckle on my ring finger. I thought this was pretty much standard?

[Monolith]

I'm just over 3cm difference too but found through trial and error a little technique when back twoing the shallow pockets or crimps that makes it comfortable.

It could be perhaps due to my incestual Wirral hands that this helped but I found that if you wrap your thumb over your first two that are dangling in space whilst starting out with the grip, it seems to stablise the hand as a whole. After a session or two of doing this, I found I could half crimp without this thumb wrap very comfortably. Bizzarely (or perhaps not), I noticed at first that half crimped on the small pockets felt a lot less strained than in the deep pockets. Obviously this is just a reflection of the strength of one grip position over another but they soon seemed to even out.

[Pebblespanker]

My pinkie is a good 3 cm shorter than ring finger, ends just behind the first (or is it last?) knuckle on my ring finger. I thought this was pretty much standard?

Measured mine after thinking the other posters must have mutant ring and pinkies; mine 'looked' about 15mm tops - then I apply some science (plastic ruler) and find I'm around 25mm ... are there somatype equivalents for hands?? I seem to remember reading there are certain classic shapes; 'spade like' was one?? Rather than look at simple length differences perhaps it might be better to consider pinkie length as percentage of ring length or some such ratio rather than actual lengths, then any statistical outliers (mutants) will be more apparent? just a thought

I also find Back 2 hard and have to be very careful about the passive finger positions for it to be anywhere approaching comfortable - but since I'm a punter I'm just weak hence I am beasting Back 3 to get a good strength base before returning to including some more regular Back 2 in the new year

[a dense loner]

Are u lot really posting that your little fingers arent as long as your other fingers? When did you realise this? The give away for me was when my mum told me the name for them n I checked them against my other fingers in amazement

[SA Chris]

You struggling to follow the discussion Dense? Read it again and have another go at it. In primary school they call this Comprehension.

[a dense loner]

The six posts before mine all have finger lengths in them in mm. In my primary school we called this bollocks

[Pebblespanker]

The six posts before mine all have finger lengths in them in mm. In my primary school we called this bollocks

In my school we called those type of measurements 'the difference between finger lengths' 

it may be bollocks Dense but it was more interesting than working on the Networks OLA document I am currently writing

[quiffhanger]

Hmmm, thinking this could be good for me. Especially as I have a sore middle finger.

Do people drag or attempt to half-crimp the back 2? I can kinda hand the deep pockets dragging but I doubt I could half crimp them even if I took off 40kg.

-ross

[Monolith]

I think unless both your index and little finger were the same or of similar length, one would struggle to reach the pinkie onto the crimp to hang off of - i.e. half-crimp the way.

You'll be surprised perhaps at how rapidly you progress from back three on one hand, back two on the other to simply back two. I can honestly say from training the grip type in question by this process of isolation, I have experienced considerable finger strength gains.

[Pebblespanker]

Hmmm, thinking this could be good for me. Especially as I have a sore middle finger.

Do people drag or attempt to half-crimp the back 2? I can kinda hand the deep pockets dragging but I doubt I could half crimp them even if I took off 40kg.

-ross

Weak old punter version - OH/Drag in the deep 2F pockets on my Beasty1K, absolutely no chance of me crimping with them at the moment