[clm]

i think LIARD is easier than 6c. Depends if you french to the lip or not but still very straight forwards. Id even go so far as to suggest 6b. There are certainly harder 6a+ in the forest.

[Sloper]

I'd agree with that, but I still find as a short inflexible bastard that LIARD is quite tricky . . . . actually that's bollocks it's just powerfull and now I'm weak I find it tricky.

Anyone tried le lancer at L'elephant from the ground?

[kingholmesy]

i think LIARD is easier than 6c. Depends if you french to the lip or not but still very straight forwards. Id even go so far as to suggest 6b. There are certainly harder 6a+ in the forest.

Please don't downgrade LIARD.  I was despondent enough getting shutdown on it at 6c.

[Dr T]

Anyone tried le lancer at L'elephant from the ground?

yes
(and of course I couldn't do it)

[old cheese]

ignore CLM. He was obviously feeling light the day he did LIARD and heavy the day he did a 6a+ in font. Have you got rocks in your head? 6a+ in font only feels hard when you do not know how to do it

[clm]

is a problem you can manage when you rock up in piss wet, muddy adidas sambas that youve mountain biked there in worthy of 6c? Anyway, this is a grading debate. Who said anything about talking sense? What does remergence get? Its easier than that.

[ferret]

is a problem you can manage when you rock up in piss wet, muddy adidas sambas that youve mountain biked there in worthy of 6c? Anyway, this is a grading debate. Who said anything about talking sense? What does remergence get? Its easier than that.

anybody climbing in piss wet muddy trainers is pretty disrespectful, what about the guy who turned up 30 minutes after you left to do his proj only to find out it was covered in mud? also anybody climbing on grit or sandstone please keep your feet clean, dirty shoes cause erosion.

[clm]

ill claim the innocence of youth. It was back in the 90s pre mats and that. It was E4 6c then.
And the fact i was being a nob doesnt affect my opinion on grades.

[fatdoc]

zippys is a far better problem.

This is tripe. Are we discussing stars or just grade?

General view so far: It seems like we're heading for some serious expansion of the 7b+ grade - all the 7cs seem to be coming down, plus several 7bs going up. The socio-demographic significance of 7b+ as representing the punter/hero transition has been discussed here before, so I won't go into that, but one thing is clear to me: since the last guide people have got better. Cofe for instance, has done Brad Pit. There are other examples. In summary, I think we need to make a bit more space for what I propose calling 'the easier 7cs' rather than just expanding 7b+ to accomodate all the proud problems that punters are suddenly wobbling up.

For starters, I now consider WSS 7c. It was considered hard/ borderline before, since the pebble loss the easiest sequence is no longer viable - therefore 7c.

And another thing - why is jonjon offering 'an opinion'? Surely he will just take a red pen to the final manuscript and lay down the truth?

[mrjonathanr]

is a problem you can manage when you rock up in piss wet, muddy adidas sambas that youve mountain biked there in worthy of 6c?

Depends on whether it's done footless, really.

[kingholmesy]

What does remergence get? Its easier than that.

No it's not.

[clm]

oh yes it is!

[kingholmesy]

... it's behind you.  Er sorry, I mean Oh no it's not!

[Jim]

everyone can safely ignore any opinion clm has about grades

[a dense loner]

i don't know he's normally on the money, what about that piece of shit crack whore he put up in wilton. old school 6c was it jim, by far the hardest problem he'd ever done?

[andy_e]

Has that even seen a repeat?

[GCW]

Crack Horse?  In Brownstones, at 7a+ and still unrepeated?
The legend that is CLM   

[andy_e]

I'll rephrase my question - has anybody bothered to repeat it?

[JamieG]

A few other thoughts.

What does remergence get? Its easier than that.

No it's not.

Remergence is solid 6b, i reckon. The arete to the left is tougher. Maybe deserves a plus.

Someone earlier mentioned 7ball. I agree this is tough for 6c, but probably not 7a.

Satin is a soft 7a, but not sure it should be downgraded. You still need pretty strong fingers.

Tiger (on the tank) is seriously hard for 6a. Probably a 6b at least.

The groove on the useful block (without the crack) is ridiculously hard for 5+. Feels like a 6c.

Breakfast and trackside are definitely 7as. They are knacky, so that is why some people find them easier. If you don't have the feel, they can spit you off endlessly.

[GCW]

Nemo, I keep meaning to have a look but the "terriers chewing on your fingers" description puts me off a bit!

[kingholmesy]

Remergence is solid 6b, i reckon. The arete to the left is tougher. Maybe deserves a plus.

Someone earlier mentioned 7ball. I agree this is tough for 6c, but probably not 7a.

I think Remergence nudges into 6b+.  7ball definitely isn't any harder than 6c in my book.

Anyway, do you fancy the Cave on Tuesday Jim?

[a dense loner]

shit, forgot clm had done 2 new probs! meant his prob in wilton 2(?). doubt crack whores been repeated cos its a bag of wank

[andy_e]

Wow, what a guy. What's the Wilton 2 prob? Common/Local/can'trememberwhichwasdecided Knowledge? Crack Whore looks like a good line but sounds like it's not great.

[clm]

shit, forgot clm had done 2 new probs! meant his prob in wilton 2(?). doubt crack whores been repeated cos its a bag of wank

Pah! Liard still easier than remergence. 2 lee! You are ignoring my obscure sw scitland glut.

[simes]

i think LIARD is easier than 6c. Depends if you french to the lip or not but still very straight forwards. Id even go so far as to suggest 6b. There are certainly harder 6a+ in the forest.

I've done it in wellies. Not 6c.