[rodma]

I've never quite managed to get it right to be honest. I think that I've always climbed at my best by thoroughly beasting myself for several days on and then taking a couple of rest days before each rock-day or comp. Then straight back to the beasting again.

Rodders, This isn't a dig or a put down, but, well, how do I put this... You've admitted in the past that your comp/trip performance is often a big let down and you're nearly semi-permanently injured.

http://roddybouldering.blogspot.com/2009/10/getting-it-right.html

Maybe some periodisation would help break this chain?

Just a thought 

 

I never got it right after I started periodisation and all of the associated cross training that we were asked to do when on the team. I'm not saying that it doesn't work. I think that it ought to work for a competition, where there is a set date and the event is not weather dependant. I think that the cross training that I did whilst on the team seriously affected my climbing (in a negative way). By swapping from "my way" to "their way" I managed to go from having done my first font 8as in font, got 21st place in a world cup, to being unable to get up any font 7a in font and getting a 20th place in the bbcs

My best results both in trips and in comps have been by the method that i described. I've just recently started going back to the weights, but not as part of some pyramid or periodisation and am currently seeing a return to form that I haven't seen since 2007, despite having a knackered hand.

[Fultonius]

Ah, ok, interesting.   Once again... making assumptions comes back to haunt me!

A bit    but what weights do you do? Deadlifts/Squats etc?

[shark]

I never got it right after I started periodisation and all of the associated cross training that we were asked to do when on the team. I'm not saying that it doesn't work. I think that it ought to work for a competition, where there is a set date and the event is not weather dependant. I think that the cross training that I did whilst on the team seriously affected my climbing (in a negative way). By swapping from "my way" to "their way" I managed to go from having done my first font 8as in font, got 21st place in a world cup, to being unable to get up any font 7a in font and getting a 20th place in the bbcs

My best results both in trips and in comps have been by the method that i described. I've just recently started going back to the weights, but not as part of some pyramid or periodisation and am currently seeing a return to form that I haven't seen since 2007, despite having a knackered hand.

Sorry to hear that it worked out for you this way. It would be good what we can pick up from your experience though.

Can you expand a bit on the cross-training you did and also what the outcome was for the rest of the team ? Also how long was the periodised programme and was it structured along classic linear lines? Was it puty together by Dave Binney ?

[rodma]

In reply to Fultonious and Shark

The cross training that we were given was by a strength conditioning coach. I'm pretty sure I signed a non-disclosure agreement, but lets just say it was pyramid with standard phases (adaptation etc.) and other people have posted on here about similar. As for the specific exercices, let's just say that they were "Olympic" style lifting with the emphasis on very specific form and heavy weights (I ended up doing reps on a few exercises with more than double my bodyweight)

AFAIK, the rest of the team sacked it off (the guys anyway). I'm not sure about the gals.

I now do good-mornings, clean-and-jerk and squats, which are the same sets of exercises I used to do. I can write something more comprehensive when I get achance if either of you (or anyone else) is interested.

On the team, it was a big mix of exercises all designed to compliment one another and I did get a lot better at lifting weights (sumo squat). The big problem for me is, that when I climb, I don't move (or use) my legs in that fashion or even range of movement, I tend to paste-and-go.

I did get a pb on the campus board during this period as well (jump-catch 5th rung, pull to but my bouldering was both shit whilst down the wall, shit at the crag and shit in competition.

[Falling Down]

Rodders - I'd be interested to hear more about your weights regime and how it differs from the cross-training you were doing as part of the team that you thought detrimental to performance.

I'm in the process of starting to do incorporate barbell work for overall conditioning and injury proofing and would like to hear what's worked for others.

[stonemonkey]

As part  of my uni course we do sports conditioning specifically relating to climbing and other outdoor sports if you so choose. Many people train the wrong way thinking it will benefit their climbing, however you need to remember the rule of specificity in relation to your actual goals. If you want to become more powerful in your bouldering, there is less benefit training your CV system as you will be recruiting the wrong muscle fibres i.e. fast twitch to slow twitch. So try to keep things as specific as possible. I had really good results from keeping a training/climbing diary as it helps paint a far better picture

[BB]

Rodders - I'd be interested to hear more about your weights regime and how it differs from the cross-training you were doing as part of the team that you thought detrimental to performance.

I'm in the process of starting to do incorporate barbell work for overall conditioning and injury proofing and would like to hear what's worked for others.

 

I'm keen to learn as much as I can about complimentary weights regimes and cross training. It'd be great to hear first hand opinions about what worked and what didn't in relation to specific climbing goals.

[Falling Down]

Maybe a separate thread is needed?  I'll start one.

[Falling Down]

As if by magic (thanks mods..)

My non-climbing training is not to make me a better climber (that only comes from climbing and climbing specific training IMHO) but to increase my overall physical 'capital' to improve recovery, expand my capacity for climbing specific training and performance e.g. more redpoint goes close to limit, more goes at boulder problems, longer days tradding. I started earlier this year on the back of a run of injuries gained last year that were to do with shoulder problems & elbow tendonitis and realised that whilst I was in OK shape, I was pretty out of balance and set about trying to address some of the problems.

- Male 40 yrs old, 80kg.
- Climbing 20 yrs trad, sport and bouldering, OK technique.

Strength/Power Goals
2 x BW Deadlft (Done 175kg)
1.5 x BW Front Squat
1xBW OH Squat
1xBW Bench Press (Close.. 70kg)
.5 BW Turkish Getup (Done 40kg)
25 x Pullup
0.5 BW Weighted Pullup (Done 60kg)

Cardio Power Endurance
Row 2000m <7:00 (7:20)
Row 5000m <19:30 (21:00)

I'll expand a lttle more tomorrow as I'm heading to the wall now.

[Paul B]

I've always avoided anything squat shaped for the obvious reason that any additional muscle mass needs to be dragged up with me (or in Gymjones speak: I need to carry the engine  ).

I've done a few phases of weights which have varied from isolation exercises to complexes but never really found any apparent crossover despite obviously getting better PB's at exercises. They've always addressed the imbalances I've had which I have to be honest, was usually the reason I'd started (thus allowing me to start re-creating the imabalance as I'm fairly convinced a balance isn't optimum for absolute performance but I could be way off here).

The most transferable exercises I've found have all been on the rings. The benefits in my core and shoulders were evident.

I'd be interested to know if anybody has dealt with explosive exercises such as clean and jerk / Bench with the weights (KB's) attached to the bar via therabands?

[Falling Down]

>I'm fairly convinced a balance isn't optimum for absolute performance but I could be way off here)

No I think you're right Paul.  I was flicking through a Climber mag at the wall and stumbled across a Stevie Haston article where he was comparing the pro's and con's of three physically very different Stevie's throughout his career. 

As for squats, you're also right, problem with me is that I've always had big legs so I figure might as well make these pit props as strong as possible plus I've noticed big improvement in hip flexibility through doing squats.

[Paul B]

I see what you did there 

[Fultonius]

You don't actually need to bulk up much to be able to do bodyweight overhead squats:

[Paul B]

You don't actually need to bulk up much to be able to do bodyweight overhead squats:

the point is IMO (which may be unfounded), the benefit of doing so is literally outweighed by ANY related increase in body mass, I've best I've ever climbed was when I was my most injury prone, and lightest. The recent popularity of dieting proves this, climbing is ridiculously dependant on your weight, its the quickest, easiest way to get gains.

[Fultonius]

Oh, I don't doubt the best way to be the strongest you can be is to do absolutely nothing that doesn't directly improve your climbing (squats won't do an awful lot for climbing, but, as you say, may be detrimental due to bulk).

On the other hand, if being a bit more injury proof is more important to you than 1/2 a Font grade, the squats are probably very useful! (I have to do them just now as rehab for my knee - I've definitely put a few kg of leg mass on, but that's life!)

Deadlifts I would guess have a better cross-over to climbing, as they pound the hamstrings, glutes and lower back, all of which will help on steep bouldering.

It seems like the current thinking is, if you keep the protein/calorie intake low, reps and sets low, and weights high you'll gain a lot of power and strength without gaining much bulk. Boxers/weightlifters in restricted weight categories have been doing it for years.

[Lund]

It seems like the current thinking is, if you keep the protein/calorie intake low, reps and sets low, and weights high you'll gain a lot of power and strength without gaining much bulk. Boxers/weightlifters in restricted weight categories have been doing it for years.

This is the whole muscle-recruitment, hypertrophy, fibre-balance thing.  Here ya go, some SCIENCE: http://www.coachr.org/fiber.htm

I have question, about legs.  So... I climb about max V9; weigh 62kg.  I have the legs of a 12 year old only with more hair.  I don't diet, as I can't be arsed.  And I don't think it'd make any difference.  I don't really do any power leg exercise; I run a bit to keep the CV engine non-fecked, but that's all.  If I do ANY leg exercise, I gain weight, although not much.

I'm CRAP at dynos.

Would I get better if I had bigger legs?  Or rather, do I need bigger legs (plus some dyno technique...) to get better at dynos?  Obviously, other shit would get worse, but there's a balance, right - if I can climb V10 with a bit more weight and being able to jump, then that's all good...

[Fultonius]

Willackers has got the most pathetic legs I've ever seen  and crushes all manners of Dynos with ease. 

If you're 62kg, you can't be all that tall - (or you'd be some kind of freakish pole-like thing) - that's obviously going to limit your dynoing ability a bit?  Do you really want to be better at dynos?

[Lund]

Willackers has got the most pathetic legs I've ever seen  and crushes all manners of Dynos with ease. 

If you're 62kg, you can't be all that tall - (or you'd be some kind of freakish pole-like thing) - that's obviously going to limit your dynoing ability a bit?  Do you really want to be better at dynos?

5'9 3/4''.  So not short at all thank you very much.    No, not that fussy... just curious.

[Falling Down]

At the moment my body mass is decreasing even as I'm increasing the weights but that's because I'm carrying too much fat so it's a win-win at the moment. 

[Serpico]

You don't actually need to bulk up much to be able to do bodyweight overhead squats:

the point is IMO (which may be unfounded), the benefit of doing so is literally outweighed by ANY related increase in body mass, I've best I've ever climbed was when I was my most injury prone, and lightest. The recent popularity of dieting proves this, climbing is ridiculously dependant on your weight, its the quickest, easiest way to get gains.

There's a number of points here.
Regarding strength to weight, specifically fingers, I think you adapt to whatever weight you are (within reason). That's why people who have plateaued climb better when they lose some weight, my experience is that they fail to keep that relative strength increase as their fingers adapt to climbing at the new weight.
For me if I increase muscle mass I tend to offset a lot of the weight gain by having lower body fat levels - the two always seem to go hand in hand for me, from what I've read this seems to be others experience as well. Also when I increase muscle mass it's only in the region of 1Kg, I'm never going to be big even if I train and eat for hypertrophy.
Age is an issue as well, as I plod on in to decrepitude sarcopenia is more of a concern - so I train to add muscle just to offset what I'm losing. I've always been weak of body, strong of finger, so I had a lot to gain from increasing overall body strength, there's a lot of climbers who are naturally very strong, typically they're often the type of people who bulk up easily, weight training for them is unnecessary and usually detrimental to climbing performance.
As for what does and doesn't transfer, I've experienced a noticeable improvement in moves that involve standing up from an undercut (the crux of Vogue, etc) from doing deadlifts and squats. Exercises that target my (weak) shoulders like upright rows had the knock on effect of improving my deadhanging ability.

[Paul B]

There's a number of points here.
Regarding strength to weight, specifically fingers, I think you adapt to whatever weight you are (within reason). That's why people who have plateaued climb better when they lose some weight, my experience is that they fail to keep that relative strength increase as their fingers adapt to climbing at the new weight.

I'm struggling to accept this looking at the new breed of ever younger climbers who have literally nothing in the way of muscles yet it doesn't seem to stop them. My experience has been those that have dieted have done so badly and struggle to maintain their new found weight. I've recently started using a weight belt and the difference a measly 2kg makes (to me) is marked.

For me if I increase muscle mass I tend to offset a lot of the weight gain by having lower body fat levels - the two always seem to go hand in hand for me, from what I've read this seems to be others experience as well. Also when I increase muscle mass it's only in the region of 1Kg, I'm never going to be big even if I train and eat for hypertrophy.

and neither am I...

I too have seen (and purposefully sought) to reduce my bodyfat whilst lifting which offset the mass gains but only temporarily. The lower bodyfat % doesn't seem maintainable to me at least (without being entirely climbing focussed which I'm not these days). Do you manage to maintain this lower bodyfat %?

[Serpico]

I'm struggling to accept this looking at the new breed of ever younger climbers who have literally nothing in the way of muscles yet it doesn't seem to stop them.

I think there's an age thing here - I was stronger for a lot less effort and muscle when I was younger.

I've recently started using a weight belt and the difference a measly 2kg makes (to me) is marked.

But you're using the weight belt because you expect to adapt to the extra weight, you do the same with reasonable muscle mass gains. I don't think anyone is coming up against their genetic limit for finger strength, they're just failing to have a consistently high enough stimulus.

I too have seen (and purposefully sought) to reduce my bodyfat whilst lifting which offset the mass gains but only temporarily. The lower bodyfat % doesn't seem maintainable to me at least (without being entirely climbing focussed which I'm not these days). Do you manage to maintain this lower bodyfat %?

My point was that I didn't purposely try to reduce my BF%, it just happens naturally when I weight train. For me having more muscle seems to keep the BF% down.

[Stubbs]

I'm struggling to accept this looking at the new breed of ever younger climbers who have literally nothing in the way of muscles yet it doesn't seem to stop them.

Hmmmm for every Paul Robinson there's a Daniel Woods or a Nalle Hukkataival.  I think one of the most interesting things about climbing is that there's not a specific body type or muscle %age that's best like there is in most other sports.

[robertostallioni]

I think one of the most interesting things about climbing is that there's not a specific body type or muscle %age that's best like there is in most other sports.

I think we both know thats not true, Tim.   

[account_inactive]

I'm struggling to accept this looking at the new breed of ever younger climbers who have literally nothing in the way of muscles yet it doesn't seem to stop them.

Hmmmm for every Paul Robinson there's a Daniel Woods or a Nalle Hukkataival.  I think one of the most interesting things about climbing is that there's not a specific body type or muscle %age that's best like there is in most other sports.

Bad example as Woods and Nalle are hardly heavy for their frames. 
I fail to see how someone who has climbed for 10 years at 12 stone will adapt to suit a 10 stone frame over a short period of time I can think of several example of this amongst friends whose grades have increased exponentially when they started to drop weight.

[mrjonathanr]

My point was that I didn't purposely try to reduce my BF%, it just happens naturally when I weight train. For me having more muscle seems to keep the BF% down.

Metabolic tissue, innit? TBH I really can't see how an active climber is going to put on significant muscle tissue (ie kilos) unless they get a bit obsessed by the gym in preference to climbing. eg 3kg is a massive amount of muscle gain, bodybuilders sweat blood to add much smaller amounts.

[Stubbs]

Bad example as Woods and Nalle are hardly heavy for their frames. 

You wouldn't call them heavy, but they are far from Bennett-like waifishness innit?

[account_inactive]

Bad example as Woods and Nalle are hardly heavy for their frames. 

You wouldn't call them heavy, but they are far from Bennett-like waifishness innit?

Paul's only 9.  He's got years to bulk up

[Serpico]

I fail to see how someone who has climbed for 10 years at 12 stone will adapt to suit a 10 stone frame over a short period of time I can think of several example of this amongst friends whose grades have increased exponentially when they started to drop weight.

You're talking about a huge weight change - of course they're going to see a big grade increase, I never claimed that this would be lost in a short time period, you know as well as I do that after significant training followed by de-training strength levels don't revert to pre-training levels. I would expect their absolute strength level to decrease with time without the continuing stimulus of climbing with that extra 2 stone though.
Lighter is generally better, particularly for sport climbers - boulderers are generally heavier, but if you're only dealing with a couple of extra Kgs of functional hypertrophy then the fingers will adapt because it's a continuous stimulus.

[Falling Down]

As a build on yesterday's post about absolute strength/power targets. I've also been doing a fair amount of Strength Endurance/Power Endurance circuits and progressions but before I get to that.

To give my personal climbing and training objectives some context, one of my challenges over recent years has been dealing with my work schedule which is usually 50-60 hours a week, usually more when including travel as I'm never at home or in one place for at least three days each and every week (the last time I spent six continuous nights in my own bed was last Christmas holiday) and often find myself in strange places with no access to climbing walls and it's a blessing when I can even get into a gym.  Believe me, if I worked a regular job in the same town I would be at the wall three times a week like I used to in my twenties and I wouldn't be contributing much to this thread at all.    No I don't want a medal or a minature violin and I'm not moaning about my work-life balance, I really like my job (most of the time) and I have a lovely country house in the middle of the Peak but it does throw up all sorts of challenges to a structured climbing training schedule. 

So rather than sitting getting  and stuffing my face every night in a hotel or guesthouse I have to figure out some shit to do that is going to add to rather than hinder my progress on the rocks and overall physical preparedness for the odd surfing trip, bike ride and run. 

If, at the end of a twelve hour day, I can pick up heavy objects and put them down again several times in different ways or run around in the dark in the rain till I feel sick then that makes me a much happier and healthier man than not doing it at all.  The fact that it may help at the weekend when I'm trying to climb is a bonus... (I think it does by the way).

I guess the point of this post if there was one, is that context is important. I'm 100% certain I would climb harder and better if I was doing 4x4's at the local wall on a Tuesday evening rather than Burpee ladders in a Travelodge bedroom in Reading or a dumbell circuit in a hotel gym before work but I'm 100% certain I would climb worse if I didn't do them at all.

Also, as Serpico points out I'm starting to feel my age and want to wring out the best of my body for next thirty years. So a session or two a week over the winter months spent lifting weights and on the rower are probably better for me than repeatedly hanging from the fingerboard.

So.. if it helps there's my justification for weights and cross training which is very different from Rodma's and Pauls and Fultionios' and Serpico's and everyone else who's contributed as we are all in different situations, have different goals and live very different lives.

I was going to rattle off some PE gym stuff but I'll leave that until tomorrow.

[Barratt]

I've never been overly concerned with weight, but reading a comment of 5'10 and 62kgs has me wondering if my weight is a core reason (one of many perhaps) for my long plateau.

5'10
Average build
72kgs
Stuck on 7a for a long time!

[robertostallioni]

Skillz FD. Good post, strange image though.

[Adam Lincoln]

I've never been overly concerned with weight, but reading a comment of 5'10 and 62kgs has me wondering if my weight is a core reason (one of many perhaps) for my long plateau.

5'10
Average build
72kgs
Stuck on 7a for a long time!

For reference, i am the same height as you and weigh 68kg. Less if i am trying to redpoint a hard route.

[Falling Down]

Skillz FD. Good post, strange image though.

I AM Partridge  (as Jasper, Cofe, Stubbs, Slackers, Paul, and every fucker else off UKB who's on Twitter likes to remind me )

[Barratt]

I've never been overly concerned with weight, but reading a comment of 5'10 and 62kgs has me wondering if my weight is a core reason (one of many perhaps) for my long plateau.

5'10
Average build
72kgs
Stuck on 7a for a long time!

For reference, i am the same height as you and weigh 68kg. Less if i am trying to redpoint a hard route.

That's settled then, I'm a fat bastard!

Thanks for the ref, good to know.

[Richie Crouch]

I've never been overly concerned with weight, but reading a comment of 5'10 and 62kgs has me wondering if my weight is a core reason (one of many perhaps) for my long plateau.

5'10
Average build
72kgs
Stuck on 7a for a long time!

For reference, i am the same height as you and weigh 68kg. Less if i am trying to redpoint a hard route.

I'm ~ 6"1 and 70kg and would love to know weight routines for how to put on muscle mass that would be useful for general strength. I often feel lanky and underpowered on short hard sequences! I.E. have to try really hard and run out of steam after a few hard back to back moves.

Don't know if general strength training through weights/arm exercises is the answer though or just trying harder specific simulation problems on a board/roof!

[account_inactive]

I fail to see how someone who has climbed for 10 years at 12 stone will adapt to suit a 10 stone frame over a short period of time I can think of several example of this amongst friends whose grades have increased exponentially when they started to drop weight.

You're talking about a huge weight change - of course they're going to see a big grade increase, I never claimed that this would be lost in a short time period, you know as well as I do that after significant training followed by de-training strength levels don't revert to pre-training levels. I would expect their absolute strength level to decrease with time without the continuing stimulus of climbing with that extra 2 stone though.
Lighter is generally better, particularly for sport climbers - boulderers are generally heavier, but if you're only dealing with a couple of extra Kgs of functional hypertrophy then the fingers will adapt because it's a continuous stimulus.

Thought you would bite

[Dexter]

I've never been overly concerned with weight, but reading a comment of 5'10 and 62kgs has me wondering if my weight is a core reason (one of many perhaps) for my long plateau.

5'10
Average build
72kgs
Stuck on 7a for a long time!

For reference, i am the same height as you and weigh 68kg. Less if i am trying to redpoint a hard route.

I'm ~ 6"1 and 70kg and would love to know weight routines for how to put on muscle mass that would be useful for general strength. I often feel lanky and underpowered on short hard sequences! I.E. have to try really hard and run out of steam after a few hard back to back moves.

Don't know if general strength training through weights/arm exercises is the answer though or just trying harder specific simulation problems on a board/roof!

I'm 6"2ish and weigh around 70-75kg depending on the day of the week and i think if youre lanky you run out of steam a lot more easily as I can do some really hard moves but then get really knackered if  string a few together (dave mcleods book has something about this) think the best solution is climb fast and as you said try problems with a few hard moves in a row instead of just one or two.

Also to reply to the question about dynos if you have tiny legs I have little chicken legs but I can dyno fairly well just keep trying them and you will get better

[Paul B]

I'm ~ 6"1 and 70kg and would love to know weight routines for how to put on muscle mass that would be useful for general strength.

This has as much to do with diet as it does with which regime you apply.

@Serpico - So you're saying that you'd expect my finger strength to decline (slowly) if I dropped back to my 'fighting' weight?

I can completely understand how the missing extra stimulus would result in less beneficial training in absolute terms but when you normalise things against bodyweight I'm not sure that matters, the ability to hang one armed off a hold is irrespective of weight if you can achieve it. Even if strength levels decline as you suggest, you've already noted that they'd remain higher than in the first place. Net gain?

If what you're saying is true then weighted deadhangs would be completely useless because as soon as you stopped doing it regularly, you'd lose the stimulus and start to decline.

[Serpico]

If what you're saying is true then weighted deadhangs would be completely useless because as soon as you stopped doing it regularly, you'd lose the stimulus and start to decline.

They're not at all useless, but isn't that exactly what happens with any exercise?

[Paul B]

Yes. I guess my point was that I'm still to be convinced that you don't end up with a net gain (but maybe I'm missing what you're saying).

[jstrongman]

I found Matt Fitzgeralds book Racing Weight http://www.amazon.co.uk/Racing-Weight-Matt-Fitzgerald/dp/1934030511 a good reference for getting the balance between loosing weight and not affecting overall strength/performance. Basically its all about timing when and what to eat, and if you want to do it properly like everything, its a long term process. 

Oh and i would definitely recommend getting some good scales which measure body composition, body fat, muscle mass etc then you can make sure you are losing the right stuff.

[Serpico]

Yes. I guess my point was that I'm still to be convinced that you don't end up with a net gain (but maybe I'm missing what you're saying).

1.I think we've probably got lost in the detail here. My 2 main points are:
If you train with added weight/intensity you'll make strength gains, but if you stop training, over time those gains will be lost (though not quite to pre-training levels, depending on the magnitude of the gains).
2.There are a lot of strong fingered skinny guys/girls out there who'd benefit from being stronger in the body and who could easily adapt to carrying the little bit of extra weight.

[Lund]

2.There are a lot of strong fingered skinny guys/girls out there who'd benefit from being stronger in the body and who could easily adapt to carrying the little bit of extra weight.

I agree with what you mean.  For point of clarity/pedantry etc. it needs to be a "little bit of extra useful weight" ;-)

Where's the point at which it stops becoming true though; i.e. what's "a little"?  I've certainly seen guys built like gymnasts crushing the shit out of everything - they're proper muscular, so maybe there isn't one?  This isn't science though.

BTW, with regard to chicken legs, it seems maybe height is more important.  I think I'm only 62kg because I have almost no body fat to speak of, and very short skinny legs like a 12 year old.  (I'm not 12 by the way... although I frequently act like it.)

[rodma]

Yes. I guess my point was that I'm still to be convinced that you don't end up with a net gain (but maybe I'm missing what you're saying).

 

You do end up with a net gain, as long as you use your new found strength/power, why would it magically disappear?

I used to use a belt to train with down the wall and I could get up some of the eights, after a week or four of adapting to the extra mass. After removing the belt I could do the eights more easily, so I had to either do laps on them, or try something harder. It's fucking simple, if you don't use what you've just worked hard for you're either going to lose it, or forget how to use it.

[Paul B]

t's fucking simple, if you don't use what you've just worked hard for you're either going to lose it, or forget how to use it.

With fingers I haven't found that to be true which is where the original tangent began.

[rodma]

t's fucking simple, if you don't use what you've just worked hard for you're either going to lose it, or forget how to use it.

With fingers I haven't found that to be true which is where the original tangent began.

You're probably right, I've found that I tend to forget how to pull hard if I don't keep....erm......pulling hard, but I suppose you shouldn't lose recruitment. You definately lose the feeling of low-gravity after only a few sessions, once you stop using a belt (by "you" I mean "one").

[Paul B]

'you' is perfectly applicable  , one week off for DIY and there was a definite gravity increase somewhere around the Foundry.