[ghisino]

I could tell you who belayed me on Resurection in 1994.

off the main topic...

@punter or even "wannabe" levels, what about people doing their top ascents on trips and exchanging belays with "unknowns"? Would you believe only if you're provided with an e-mail and the belayer (or spectator) confirms?

or again, other case. A few boulderers are "shy" and usually climb their hardest when they are alone : i guess they either suffer the presence of "competitors", or the presence of people in general (they get distracted or sth like that). Do you believe only if they flood youtube with still-camera cheap edit videos?

Finally. what about someone who only climbs hard with a few very close friends or with their partner? Does that invalidate the "belayer's proof"?

I mean, in all these cases (that happen) what are your criteria to consider the climber genuine vs liar?
(i stress, again : talking of levels that won't bring any major sponsorship)

[dave]

I could tell you who belayed me on Resurection in 1994.

off the main topic...

@punter or even "wannabe" levels, what about people doing their top ascents on trips and exchanging belays with "unknowns"? Would you believe only if you're provided with an e-mail and the belayer (or spectator) confirms?

or again, other case. A few boulderers are "shy" and usually climb their hardest when they are alone : i guess they either suffer the presence of "competitors", or the presence of people in general (they get distracted or sth like that). Do you believe only if they flood youtube with still-camera cheap edit videos?

Finally. what about someone who only climbs hard with a few very close friends or with their partner? Does that invalidate the "belayer's proof"?

I mean, in all these cases (that happen) what are your criteria to consider the climber genuine vs liar?
(i stress, again : talking of levels that won't bring any major sponsorship)

As I said, it all depends upon the person in question already having a demonstrable track record of being honest.

[nik at work]

And also it doesn't matter. Different people will think different things.

When people are taking sponsorship I guess there is a need for a general concensus of belief for a sponsor to continue providing support (why would a sponsor support a widely doubted climber?). The basis of this belief probably varies from person to person, I'd guess a sponsor would look for a young unknown hotshot to provide video etc established climbers probably have more ability to trade on reputation to an extent. I dunno.

If someone doesn't want sponsorship/publicity/whatever then they don't have any onus to prove anything and they probably don't care if A N Other person believes them or not. Whether you believe will be based on your personal assessment of what they tell you (and whether they have a trustworthy face).

[sjw]

I could tell you who belayed me on Resurection in 1994.

off the main topic...

@punter or even "wannabe" levels, what about people doing their top ascents on trips and exchanging belays with "unknowns"? Would you believe only if you're provided with an e-mail and the belayer (or spectator) confirms?

or again, other case. A few boulderers are "shy" and usually climb their hardest when they are alone : i guess they either suffer the presence of "competitors", or the presence of people in general (they get distracted or sth like that). Do you believe only if they flood youtube with still-camera cheap edit videos?

Finally. what about someone who only climbs hard with a few very close friends or with their partner? Does that invalidate the "belayer's proof"?

I mean, in all these cases (that happen) what are your criteria to consider the climber genuine vs liar?
(i stress, again : talking of levels that won't bring any major sponsorship)

If said "punter or wannabe" is questioned about an ascent, I don't want proof because I don't give a monkeys. If someone who I respect and has inspired me in climbing and training has lied about significant ascents and achievements then I do care. I would prefer someone proven not to have lied, but I'd equally like to know if one of my climbing inspirations is a fool.

[chris]

Unfortunately sponsorships are provided by businesses; said businesses do not want any adverse publicity associated with their brand, athletes and products. Whether wild country and scarpa have pulled their deals due to some previous accusations, or RS not providing evidence, they'll probably thinking its a good job they did given this internet thread!

It would be a real shame if his efforts on the rock are false, RS was a nice fella and a very strong committed climber and provided many with inspiration. It does strike me as odd that no-one has a vid of hubble, as his goal was always to emulate moon/moffat and tick the real hard classics, especially being a sponsored climber to boot. I would have thought providing evidence and media showcasing your skills and your sponsor's gear would only increase your value to them? saying that no-one seems to question John Gaskins and his shunted ascent of VNB (or however he climbed it) which he did alone! Hopefully a belayer will come out of the woodwork and conclude this affair....well the climbing part anyway. Re: running and boxing, sounds a little too good to be true to be honest!

it would be interested to see for what exact reasons he was dropped by both teams.

[slackline]

it would be interested to see for what exact reasons he was dropped by both teams.

Scarpa

Wild Country

Knock yourself out, perhaps post details here to stem the speculation too.

[T_B]

People who climb a lot see other people and have belayers and take photographs, apart from bouldering sometimes. As The Sausage said, you just don't go around doing your hardest routes without someone snapping a photo, or happening to be there, or belaying or whatever. It don't need to be videoed (though that is increasingly the expectation), as if someone is clearly having it, there's usually a psyched bystander snapping away (result  = convincing sequence of photos). My direct experience of sponsored b*llshitters makes me doubt anyone who hasn't got evidence for claims of significant ascents. There are soooooo many ppl climbing thesedays. I've been at the Tor on the mingingest day in March and watched Foundry Rob do Mecca on a day when he must have thought no-one else would have been there to witness it. We've seen it all before - sponsored yoof gets mum to sew logos onto shorts, then feels under pressure to come up with media-worthy results month-on-month. Have to say that those doing the sponsoring do like to put some of their younger 'athletes' on a pedestal sometimes, claiming they are the next big thing. So it's no wonder we end up with stuff getting made up. If they do terminate a high profile climber's contract it would make sense to put out a statement saying why, as it's not fair on the climber, nor the buying public and it does the brand no favours as it potentially makes them look underhand. All that said, I personally believe RS did some of the routes claimed, cos I can't believe he would have invested all the training/emotion to do Hubble/Action Directe etc and then lie about it. Let's see whether a belayer/photographer steps forward. Plus I've re-read what he wrote about BH on the other channel (his post was zapped at the time) and it's a pretty convincing diatribe about "wanting the truth" from someone clearly disillusioned with the whole climbing sponsorship game and how those who shout the loudest are generally the ones rewarded the most. As to the recent alpinism/running claims, they have been shown to be almost certainly unture, which is very sad to see. But we'll see it again no doubt. Perhaps the sponsors identifying the gifted climbers early on should have a quiet word and tell them that they're in the wrong sport! (I got the impression that RD had realised this, and bowed out. Maybe he found it more competitive on the track/in the ring and decided to come back to be a big fish in the small climbing pond? Who knows? If that was the case then life at Cambridge might come as a bit of a shock!

[shark]

Because it would be an utter waste of time. As Percy said he's not providing evidence to his sponsors on request why on earth would he provide it to me.

Perhaps it would. You'll never know if you don't try. And askings easy.

If this thread is anything to go by, the ongoing dialogue could prove tricky.

As he says:

Until people present themselves as doubters, I have no intention whatsoever in allowing them to save face by me putting up climbing videos on the net. It is the reason there is nothing up on the net at the moment and the reason nothing will ever go up. Like I said, until people outright question me, I will be doing nothing to prove them wrong. It would be unfair for me to present proof and never know the full extent of who these doubters are and exactly what they doubted.

I shall not be replying again. Unless you have anything constructive to say, then I suggest you don’t bother either.

Based on the above if I was to contact him I would need to present myself as a doubter of his ascent of AD, AM, CT, 4min mile, 2.30 marathon and the BH solo.

Any suggestions how one would go about doing that tactfully ?   

[roddersm]

I think anyone deserves to be scrutinised if they publically claim to have done something way beyond their general standard of ability, regardless if they are a punter or a
sponsored pro. Climbing relies on trust and if people are going to bullshit it destroys the credibility of the sport.  Anyone can put anything on their 8a scorecard, UKC logbook
or blogs and a lot of it is embellished or worse total bullshit. In my opinion the
internet is helping to foster a culture of deceipt/delusion with people trying to out do each other by embellishing their climbing credentials through their cyber profiles.
I'm sure there are a lot of honest people about of course.

In Simpsons case after reading all this I probably doubt his credibility more than I did before
especially when you hear some of the people who don't believe him. However from what I've heard about him or seen in videos etc. I don't think anything he's claimed is beyond the level of ability he has demonstrated. That doesn't mean he's not a liar just that there's no  conclusive reason to believe that he is.

I hope this gets sorted one way or another because like others have said Rich has been a real inspiration to people and it would be shit if it turns out that he's a liar.


 

[SA Chris]

Any suggestions how one would go about doing that tactfully ?

Preferrably choose somewhere near a boxing ring.

[rginns]

But that might just be because its YouTube suggestions list introduced me to Zuzana in "Hardest Pushups Ever"  my psyche got a little distracted after that..

 

My god, this is the best post on this thread...    

[BB]

I'm not going to comment either way as I don't feel qualified. I've only met RS once at a beach party in Swanage and I may have had some ales!

What does occur to me is that sponsors wants to get something out of their arrangement with the climber. That usually takes the form of pictures or video of the climber showcasing the sponsors gear while doing something noteworthy. If for whatever reason, the climber is either unwilling or unable to provide any material showing their gear off then they get nothing out of it, so why bother continuing to sponsor that person. Seems like it's more likely to be a commercial motivated decision to terminate the sponsorship rather than one motivated by doubt over the RS's claims.

Just my thoughts.

[slackline]

What does occur to me is that sponsors wants to get something out of their arrangement with the climber. That usually takes the form of pictures or video of the climber showcasing the sponsors gear while doing something noteworthy. If for whatever reason, the climber is either unwilling or unable to provide any material showing their gear off then they get nothing out of it, so why bother continuing to sponsor that person. Seems like it's more likely to be a commercial motivated decision to terminate the sponsorship rather than one motivated by doubt over the RS's claims.

Just my thoughts.

I've an Inifinity Ropes poster that bears the caption...

"Rich Simpson grimaces
and bears down on
the third ascent of
Liquid Ambar 8c
LPT, Wales, UK
Photo : Ray Wood"

It certainly looks like him and he's got a good grimace on.

Infinity Ropes is owned by Wild Country, so there is another source to check the veracity of the ascent of this particular route (i.e. Ray Wood although the belayer isn't mentioned) for those that are bothered by this.

[Nigel]

I imagine the likelihood is that he went back specifically for photos.

[rodma]

Are you sure he wasn't dropped by his sponsors due to generally supporting the DFBWGC thread 

[slackline]

I imagine the likelihood is that he went back specifically for photos.

A common practice that I'm aware of, but it would seem strange to then caption the picture that way (unless sponsors are not adverse to bending the truth to their advantage when going back for such pictures).

Only one way of verifying this though....Climber carry a contact page for Ray Wood.

[cofe]

I think Ray's pic featured in one mag, while another, earlier photo featured in the other mag. I might be wrong.

[ghisino]

I imagine the likelihood is that he went back specifically for photos.

A common practice that I'm aware of, but it would seem strange to then caption the picture that way (unless sponsors are not adverse to bending the truth to their advantage when going back for such pictures).

 

[petejh]

out of interest ive just google "new york marathon rich simpson" nothing apart from 2h30 is 20 minutes slower than the best in the world!!!!

then "rich simpson boxing" again nothing.as sloper says every boxer and amatuer fight is closely regulated.something would be online

I'm sorry but comments like this are just bullshit and make a mockery of this thread.
I too thought it odd that there's no no internet history of Rich's boxing and running career. Then I thought I'd test the accuracy of googling for someone's boxing career, so I googled four boxers with whom I once served in the army - the result:
Only 1 out of the 4 people I searched for showed up any trace of an internet boxing record, yet I know that all 4 of them were 'proper' boxers who boxed for their local clubs and the army. Go figure.

Just because there's no record on the web of Rich's boxing doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The only sure way to verify stuff is to actually ask Rich which club he boxes at and take it from there. I tried calling him today but he didn't answer. I'll try again because you can't seriously doubt someone without first talking to them. These comments by Rich from a previous internet shit-show on ukb strike me as very apt:

'Again, if your idea of 'normal verification' as you quite eloquently put it, was the same as mine, then I believe that neither of us would be in this situation. I believe that in order to verify something, you must make an effort to speak to the ‘organ grinder’ as opposed to the ‘monkey’ (no offence Keith/Chris), or in this case, approach the climber in question in the first instance. I do believe approaching me outright would have helped matters substantially, saving both time, effort and more importantly, enabling you to obtain reliable and accurate facts, as opposed to hearsay. I hope that we can both learn from this.'

and:

'I told James I would not be willing to give him a copy of evidence to use solely to pass onto anonymous doubters, who were not willing to ask for a copy themselves. Instead, I told James to refer the 'anonymous’ doubters to me, where I would be more than willing to provide them with evidence and put their minds at rest. Hardly an outright refusal in anyone’s book. '

and:

'All I ask is that if anyone does still have sincere doubts about my climbing, please approach me (preferably after x-mas) and I will try my best to put your mind at rest. If you are not willing to approach me, then can I urge you not to continue the mindless gossip and pub rumors, which are both upsetting for me, and a bad reflection on the climbing scene. Can’t say fairer than that, can I?'

They strike me as the words of perhaps the worlds shittest candidate for climbing sponsorship, but not those of the Uk's biggest climbing bullshitter.

[Pantontino]

I've an Inifinity Ropes poster that bears the caption...

"Rich Simpson grimaces
and bears down on
the third ascent of
Liquid Ambar 8c
LPT, Wales, UK
Photo : Ray Wood"

It certainly looks like him and he's got a good grimace on.

Infinity Ropes is owned by Wild Country, so there is another source to check the veracity of the ascent of this particular route (i.e. Ray Wood although the belayer isn't mentioned) for those that are bothered by this.

I asked Ray about this just now and he said someone else (he wasn't sure who) captioned the pic incorrectly. It was (like pretty much every hard climbing shot you see) a return visit after the event.

That neither proves or disproves anything though - just a standard scenario for a sponsored climber.

[Doylo]

When rich became aware of the UKC thread two weeks ago he wrote to his sponsors telling them he was giving up his sponsorship. He had no intention to reply to the thread. Ultimately he doesn t care if people think he s a liar but he might write something in december when term finishes. And you can keep googling rich simpson boxing/running til the cows come home but i assure you you won t find anything.

[Neil F]

Please can someone post a link to the UKC thread?

Ta!

[Ru]

If this thread is anything to go by, the ongoing dialogue could prove tricky

That thread is 4 years old.

Any suggestions how one would go about doing that tactfully ?

You have a public website with 7 pages of posts accusing him of lying and you're worried about how to speak to him tactfully? You're probably well past that stage. In the circumstances I think at the very least he should be contacted to give him an opportunity to respond.

[Johnny Brown]

I'd presume they mean e running one from three weeks back, which sparked all this:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=429267

Today I did some checking.
I contacted someone I know in the administration of Athletics in the Midlands, based in Birmingham.
This person is not only a full time employee, but also is involved in;
1) The local club - Birchfield Harriers.
2) Team management & coachingh the West Midlands (B'ham) Schools athletics.
4) Team management at Midland level.
5) Team Management at England level.
6) Keeping the records and (inc power of 10 I believe) in the Midlands.
7) Organising meetings (League, cup and open) at Alexander Stadium.
8 ) Seeding of athletes at meetings of all levels.

You can therefore take it that this person should know what's what, particularly regarding both the supposed level of the performance, and the fact that my contact had fingertip access to ALL the records on the computer sat on their desk.

This person could NOT find;

1) Any meeting late summer 2008 at Alexander Stadium that included a mile.
2) No mention of the supposed athlete anywhere at 1500m/mile.
3) There were NO meetings anywhere else with any such performance.
4) NO record of this person at ANY time having been at such a level.

Furthermore the track is AlexanDER Stadium, not AlexanDRE, a bit like saying you'd climbed all the E5's at StanEDGE.

I've just been on the phone to another mate of mine - a senior official/coach at his local club - she'd never heard of him. That now makes the 2 most knowledgeable persons in the area he lives in, who are responsible for the coaching and meeting organsations not having heard of his name.
Considering he claimed to have finished a mile in 3:58, having pacemade, and then being overtaken by the rest (?) of the field in a time FASTER than the fastest oficially recorded by a briton that year.
And what happened to all the others in the race ?
If I'd run 3:54 - 3:57 and been ignored, I'd be complaining like mad.

There won't be any "results" shown - I've already checked and found that there wasn't any such race.

Also, in 2008, only 1 British runner broke 4 minutes for the mile - Andrew Baddeley.

[Huffy]

Man, this is depressing

If Rich does get to read all this i'm sure it will just re affirm his decision to leave climbing.

Adios gossip mongers.