[cowboyhat]

Like what? Suppose I just don't get what the big deal is about people knowing stuff. 

Knowing what?

So far I've got: A bloke I've only heard of from vague reference previously on this thread may or may not have done a repeat of a problem I've never heard of which based on aforementioned location of said bloke and other contributors locations might be in the north west.

This isn't news.

Move it to a shooting the shit based thread entitled rumours about nothing?

[nik at work]

Honest answer.
If people know stuff, they ask questions, lots of questions. Some people like that, some don't mind it and some dislike it. If something becomes public knowledge then there is the balance of saying it without spraying it, and everyone has diffent views on what constitutes spraying. Some people will say nice things, but some people will give you shit.

I'm not an underground beast, or a beast of any kind but I have made some ascents of note. Originally I kept very quiet about them but over time things came out. Generally it was well recieved, which was nice, but I still got burned a few times (and I'd say I got off VERY lightly). Now I'm a bit more public on here about what I've done/am doing and again generally it goes unnoticed or gets a positive reception. But there have still been occassions when things have been less positive. Maybe I'm overly sensitive but I don't really like that. I have no sponsors to satisfy so why put myself in that position? Here it's usually fine because it is generally friendly banter type stuff but still there are times when I think of stepping back. I can still post on here and have a laugh without posting about what I've climbed. And like I say I've got off VERY lightly compared to some others it seems.

That's all personal opinion but it's a viewpoint that leads one to keep quiet.

The person in question may have different views, maybe he's just not arsed and wants to do his own thing? That's how he seems to me.

And again just to be clear I'm not trying to claim to be a beast, I'm just offering what may be a bit of insight into the motivations of people in the situation.

And now if I click Post am I spraying? Will someone thing I'm bigging myself up as a beast? Minefield...

[Johnny Brown]

Not this nonsense again.

Its very simple - if you do something hard, news will get out and people will be interested. If you don't like the sound of that, climb alone, and don't tell anyone, even your friends if you have any. Unfortunately there is no middle ground. Deal with it.

[chris_j_s]

...a problem I've never heard of...

In fairness this thread often doesn't explain what the problem/route is precisely - it's just referred to by its name. If you want to find out more there are plenty of places to look it up.

But there have still been occassions when things have been less positive.

Agreed, this really isn't on - the only reason I like to hear these things is because I find it massively inspiring to hear about hard stuff getting repeated - it spurs me on down my own trail of personal progression. I definitely don't want to witness some kind of witch hunt/bitching session based on (for example) whether the grade is right or not.

[nik at work]

Just answering the question asked JB, it's not nonsense.
But I'd agree with the rest of your post, I guess people can just find different ways to "deal with it".

[Jaspersharpe]

What JB said.

The more people try to be cloak and dagger about things, the more you end up with rumour and Chinese whisper type bullshit, which in turn can lead to the sort of stuff that nik is on about as there are doubts about whether something has happened or not.

[Fiend]

He said this he said that so-and-so said the fucking other. 

Either post news or don't.

[Johnny Brown]

Its more than that unfortunately Fiend. Either tell NO ONE, NOT ONE PERSON EVER, or deal with it. Trying to keep it a secret is not dealing with it.

[Fiend]

Sorry my reply was to the end of the previous page. I'll catch up on the rest now.

[slackline]

which in turn can lead to the sort of stuff that nik is on about as there are doubts about whether something has happened or not.

They're glitches in the Matrix, Mr Anderson.

[nik at work]

Either tell NO ONE, NOT ONE PERSON EVER, or deal with it.

Agree

Trying to keep it a secret is not dealing with it.

No it's not, but exerting some control over the release of information can be. God this sounds calculated...

Sorry this is all OT, I was just answer a question Jasper posed didn't mean it to develop into a debate.

And Jasper yes you're right you can get Chinese whispers with the cloak and dagger but equally I remember someone very well publicised a few years back where the whispers reached shouting volume on this site, that individual hadn't kept quiet about his ascents. I think the whispers are not simply a product of cloak and dagger stuff (and I also think describing it as cloak and dagger is a bit overly dramatic) but rather a broader mistrust of the individual within whichever kangaroo court he is being tried in

Anyway, anybody know of any confirmed significant repeats out there??

[Greg C]

Sam has never wanted any things he's done being spread about and he doesn't like stuff going online.  He wasnt hugely happy with the attention he got from Kaizen and Texas Sitter.  He just does stuff cos he wants to.

I can't comment regarding Kaizen, but regarding the Texas Sitter; Sam told me in person that he'd done it and never offered any caveat about not reporting the info. I had actually realized, via GCW's blog, that he had climbed the line well before he told me, but as I was lead to believe Sam didn't appreciate the hype I left it unrecorded... until of course he told me in person.

Its very simple - if you do something hard, news will get out and people will be interested. If you don't like the sound of that, climb alone, and don't tell anyone, even your friends if you have any. Unfortunately there is no middle ground. Deal with it.

I'd have to say I totally agree with this comment.

[Greg C]

Oh also, I was aware Sam had done ATHOIA in mid August via Yorky, who Sam had told when he  had seen him at Woodwell just after doing it. But as Sam had not told me directly, again, I left it unreported (just thought I'd add that to keep my journo rep intact  ).

[Johnny Brown]

but exerting some control over the release of information can be

No. This is the whole point. The only control you have over the information is whether you tell anyone, ever. Once you have its out of your control forever. And this of course supposes there are no witnesses. If there were, again, its out of your control entirely.

[nodder]

Well i rekon that it is a sad reflection of the climbing world that its more appealing to keep quiet and not tell no one bout nothing incase somebody starts whispers. 

He just does stuff cos he wants to.

So does everyone, Doylo isnt working his route so he has something to blog about, hes doing it cos he wants to. 

[GCW]

I wasn't getting at you Greg, i was very impressed with the way you handled the Texas sitter- it was more that I'd mentioned it in passing in the blog, and I've agreed not to mention anything else in future.

[chris05]

God, I'm glad I have kept quiet about all of my hard repeats   








Oh wait, it wasn't because I am publicity shy and climb for only the purest reasons, its cos I haven't climbed anything hard 

[Greg C]

I wasn't getting at you Greg, i was very impressed with the way you handled the Texas sitter- it was more that I'd mentioned it in passing in the blog, and I've agreed not to mention anything else in future.

Fair enough, but more to the point why tell me if he 'wasn't hugely happy' about the news getting out? Another important point is: if you are not going tell people stuff you have done, what happens when it comes to writing new guides etc. how, as a guide writer, are you supposed to deal with this bizarre methodology? I'm sure the FA would be unhappy if the climb was left as a project in future guides/topos, no? I know this is slightly off topic but I think it's an important point...

[Johnny Brown]

I'm sure the FA would be unhappy if the climb was left as a project in future guides/topos, no? I know this is slightly off topic but I think it's an important point...

Its exactly the point - you can't have your cake and eat it. Even if the FA did want it to be left unrecorded, would he have found/ climbed it without relying on the records of others?

Half-arsed attempts to keep a low-profile are always self-defeating. Look at this repeat - we could have had a few 'good effort' type posts and that would have been that. Instead the secrecy just makes folk more interested, the 'facts' get picked over, and the result is more thread inches.

[Probes]

Ah brilliant, can i just say i dont think sam has made any conscious effort to do anything about his ascent, publisise/not publisise, other than proudly telling a few mates? Maybe he just doesnt give a fuck, and just wants to climb. Its not that hard to understand when you've got nowt to prove.

[nodder]

If he doesnt give a fuck then why the issue?   From the posts above it sounds like a concius choice not to tell anyone.   

[Greg C]

Ah brilliant, can i just say i dont think sam has made any conscious effort to do anything about his ascent, publisise/not publisise, other than proudly telling a few mates? Maybe he just doesnt give a fuck, and just wants to climb. Its not that hard to understand when you've got nowt to prove.

No one is saying you have to spray everything all over the internet, but that's not the case in point. My argument is why, when people tell their mates about an ascent, do they get aggrieved when it trickles out into the public domain? Contrary to what you just said it says to me they do 'give a fuck' about something or other. If that's the case, as JB said, don't tell anyone and climb alone.

[Probes]

.... there's no issue to sam, i dont think he has any interest in climbing press, reports etc, other than i guess stuff being recorded for guides, hence he really really just doesnt give a fuck about any of the paraphenalia that seems to come with climbing these days... just a guy trying to climb! Im sure if he were to do FA of something then he would make it down for the record, but why shout about repeats?

[Johnny Brown]

No ones asking he shout about it, just not try to control those he does tell from telling others. Which I suspect he hasn't.

I wonder how many instances of secretive heroes are actually down to friends being over-precious about their privileged information?

[nodder]

Because no one is saying that he has to shout i was just saying it is interresting and inspiring i aspire to climb boulder problems.  This is one of the problems that gets held up as being state of the art worldwide, i think that makes this repeat news.