[Sloper]

First off I find the whole 'Red Ed' thing rather unpleasant, let's judge the man on what he does as leader not what the Daily Hate retards try and throw at him in the first few days.

Further I think good government needs an effective opposition and for the good of the country Labour need to get their act together or we're going to be left with in effect single issue groups and the Lords trying to curb the flow of shit legislation.

Now while Ed has a rather heavy handicap of being closely assoiciated with Gordon Brown I wonder how he's going act and where he'd going to go.  Will we see Labour collapse into some navel gazing, will we see a shift to the left or a bird to push the Tories and Lib Dems off the middle ground?  Will the unions revolt?  Has Gordon left two envelopes?

Your thoughts?

[cofe]

Thought 1: I'm hungry.

Thought 2: why isn't footie on council telly?

[Sloper]

Deep.

[tomtom]

I'll bite (in between swings on the beastmaker)..

I think he's a good fresh start for Labour as no-one really knows much about him (like Cameron was for Torys and Thingy for the Liberals)... I listend to the speach in full driving over and thought it was pretty good...

Previously I think Dave M would have been a better leader, but on reflection he would have more 'new labour' baggage than Ed...

Just my tuppence worth... back to the beastmaker...

[Sloper]

He worked for Gordon Brown as a SPAD so he's not untainted, also the denouncements can only take him so far with the rump of old Labour.

I'm genuinely interested in where he goes policy wise.

As a side bet how long before Cameron fires of the repost (alluding to his admission that the claim to have abolishe boom and bust was bollocks) asking if there's anything else he wants to, on behalf of his old boss, confess to?

Work on that wood, I'm out for anothe 4 months I think

[aLICErOBERTSfANkLUB]

Ed Milliband: An expert speaks.

"But what does concern me is clearly that Ed Miliband is not the choice of the MPs, is not the choice of the members and clearly became leader on the back of the union vote and I think sadly therefore this is a moment when Labour is abandoning the centre ground."

[rginns]

He's better than the badger head, but he ain't no orator.

I counted 46 times he said 'let's be honest'

They're gonna need something a bit more than Ed, he just wasn't inspiring. And his eyes are too close together.

Bring back blair.

[Sloper]

Bring back Blair?  Why . . .. ..

Do you want to invade somewhere? Construct whole tracts of dialogue without a verb? Further erode our civil liberties?

As far as I'm concerned if Labour have a role to play it's in trying to direct where the axe will fall and arguing against shite policies (all governments propose drivel, it's the nature of the beast) if Milliband can't unit Labour and pursue a cogent set of policies then we're doomed to the sort of cuntish legislation we saw under Labour, although to be honest ameloirated by sound financial policies.

[Sloper]

Ed Milliband: An expert speaks.

"But what does concern me is clearly that Ed Miliband is not the choice of the MPs, is not the choice of the members and clearly became leader on the back of the union vote and I think sadly therefore this is a moment when Labour is abandoning the centre ground."

Yeah, they really should have got Lord West, Lord Sugar, or Lord Drayson, or Lord Myners, Or Baron Mandleson, or the Baroness who went off to Europe (am I labouring the point) to comment shouldn't they? No. .. what really, gosh I though putting the unelected into positions of power was something that has only happened since May 2010.

So what were you trying to suggest?

[rginns]

Bring back Blair?  Why . . .. ..
Do you want to invade somewhere? Construct whole tracts of dialogue without a verb? Further erode our civil liberties?

Nope, but at least he could deliver a rousing speech.
It would be great to see the cuntsevatives booted out, but what's the alternative?
Millitwat reminds me of watered down soup.
Insipid.

[aLICErOBERTSfANkLUB]

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm saying that for anyone - as a member of the House of Lords, who owes their position of rank and privelege entirely to patronage - to then comment on someone else "not being elected" into a position of power has the appearance of hypocrisy.

[Sloper]

Bring back Blair?  Why . . .. ..
Do you want to invade somewhere? Construct whole tracts of dialogue without a verb? Further erode our civil liberties?

Nope, but at least he could deliver a rousing speech.
It would be great to see the cuntsevatives booted out, but what's the alternative?
Millitwat reminds me of watered down soup.
Insipid.

So could Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and Nixon, that doesn't mean that one would want any of them near to the levers of power. . . . Basically as I understand it you're from the Daily Express school of politics; i.e. fuck the consequences does it distract the masses for a moment... . . . Please tell me you don't vote.

[Sloper]

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm saying that for anyone - as a member of the House of Lords, who owes their position of rank and privelege entirely to patronage - to then comment on someone else "not being elected" into a position of power has the appearance of hypocrisy.

Indeed it does and I don't take issue with that; however the appearance is that it's a critique of this government ignoring the fact that the previous Labour government made a mockery of the peerage to a degree that Lloyd George would have found risible.

When it comes to party politics I am afraid Labour has a pedigree in this respect beyond compare . . . . it may not be comfortable reading but it is a matter of fact.

Ohh and for the record I despair at Baroness Warsi's views on religion in politics, but then again I am a rational, militant athiest Tory

Further many of the members of the House of Lords do (or used to) owe their elevation to their contribution to the fields of medicine, science, engineering, business and so on.  These folk are in my mind better placed to comment than the likes of Jack Dromey who was parachuted into a safe seat (his third choice and with no local connection) just because he was Mr Harriet Harrman.

Politics may be messy but when slinging mud it's always a good idea to have a bigger pile of shit than your opponent.

[grumpycrumpy]

Bring back Blair?  Why . . .. ..
Do you want to invade somewhere? Construct whole tracts of dialogue without a verb? Further erode our civil liberties?

Nope, but at least he could deliver a rousing speech.
It would be great to see the cuntsevatives booted out, but what's the alternative?
Millitwat reminds me of watered down soup.
Insipid.

If you really want a rousing speech from a recent Labour leader , then bring back Kinnock ...... Knocks Blair into a cocked hat ......

[superfurrymonkey]

 

[rginns]

So could Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and Nixon, that doesn't mean that one would want any of them near to the levers of power. . . . Basically as I understand it you're from the Daily Express school of politics; i.e. fuck the consequences does it distract the masses for a moment... . . . Please tell me you don't vote.

Wow, such vitriol...
I happen to be a lefty, unfortunately there's no left left! Even the libs aren't a viable alternative now. If you think that Teddy eddy Milliband is going to shake the world of politics, you're wrong. He is not leader material.
You're right about one thing though, Hitler was a great speech maker 

If you really want a rousing speech from a recent Labour leader , then bring back Kinnock ...... Knocks Blair into a cocked hat ......

True, but just before my time I'm afraid so the memory doesn't stick quite as well. Good point though.

[mrjonathanr]

You're right about one thing though, Hitler was a great speech maker 

I preferred Martin Luther King.

[rginns]

You're right about one thing though, Hitler was a great speech maker 

I preferred Martin Luther King.

True, Hitler was all style over substance...

[Steve R]

If you really want a rousing speech from a recent Labour leader , then bring back Kinnock ......

well, rousing's one word....
(jump to 1:30)
We'reOrritee!! you sure?

[tomtom]

I think Kinnock is one of Labours great leaders. the man still has a huge passion for the party and its beliefs... I was living in Surrey at the time of the 92 election and (this is largely indicative of many people there sadly) talking to folks then he seemed to suffer largely from being 1. Welsh and 2. Ginger. This was in the seat where Kenneth Baker (a prime candidate for a sith lord if ever there was) was the MP...
Maybe one of the better prime-ministers who nearly was? Sloper, I suspect you have a far greater knowledge than me on this one so I await correction!

[grumpycrumpy]

If you really want a rousing speech from a recent Labour leader , then bring back Kinnock ......

well, rousing's one word....
(jump to 1:30)
We'reOrritee!! you sure?

A perfectly forgivable blip in an otherwise illustrious career ...... I can never be arsed to go on youtube , but somewhere on there there must be a clip of the '85 conference when he routed Derek Hatton and the rest of the militant left wing from the meeting and united the party behind him ...... Bloody brilliant ......

[robertostallioni]

[mrjonathanr]

Thanks for that. It takes me back a bit: I was in (secondary) school in Liverpool when those taxis went round with redundancy notices.

Kinnock is no mean orator - but also verbose in conversation and interview and that did not help him. Principles are in the right place for me though, and it's easy to forget just how tension-ridden the landscape of early 80s politics really was. Militant developed into a major problem, and the Miner's Strike equally called into question the direction of the Labour party. Kinnock steered through it well I thought, although the Trotskyists would no doubt say he failed to stand up and be counted.

[Jaspersharpe]

As tomtom said, what did for Kinnock was being Welsh, ginger and falling over on Brighton beach:



There was just too much for the scumbag tabloids to ridicule and it undermined what a competent politician he was.

I'm not sure about Ed M but he's making the right noises about getting rid of the New Labour connections and starting afresh so we'll see. Thought the denouncing the war thing was pretty funny too.

[john horscroft]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons

He coulda been a contender......

[Doylo]

Forgot how good Kinnocks 'alright' speech was! What was he thinking! Is a bit harsh that one slightly exuberant speech could be the catalyst for losing an election but thats politics.

[Sloper]

Kinnock suffered from the same problem as Hauge, despite their oroatory their parties were riven by dissent and splits and their parties still had lots of unacceptable baggage.