[john horscroft]

Just received this from National Trust/RSPB.

As someone who knows about or uses the Eastern Moors and the Sheffield City Council moors of
Burbage, Hathersage and Houndkirk we would like to invite you to attend one of the following
consultation workshops.
By the end of each workshop, attendees will have:
• Found out more about the new partnership that will take on the management of the Eastern
Moors for the Peak District National Park Authority in Autumn 2010, and its objectives.
• Had an opportunity to contribute your views and ideas on the current and possible future
management of the Eastern and Sheffield City Council Moors;
• Heard about the next steps planned following the Eastern and Sheffield City Council Moors
summer 2010 consultation events.
Workshops are free to attend but you need to book in advance. Please telephone Margot
Seymour at Losehill Hall on 01433 622472 to book your place, or email
training.losehill@peakdistrict.gov.uk (giving your name, organisation (if relevant), email and a
contact telephone number) at least 5 days before the event(s) you wish to attend.

The workshop that looks like it was designed for biking and climbing folk is:

Workshop 3 - Enjoying the Uplands
Tuesday 3rd August, 19:00 – 21:00 (18:45 arrival)
Totley All Saints Church Hall, Totley Hall Lane, Totley, Sheffield S17
People have accessed the Eastern and Sheffield City Council Moors for the pursuit of a range of
recreational activities, such as climbing, cycling, walking and watching wildlife, for many years. The
nature of these activities is defined by the character of the land and in some ways the land has been
changed by the activities carried out there.
This workshop seeks to better understand how we can enhance the recreational provision on this
land, while ensuring it remains in harmony with the needs of the natural environment.

PM me if you'd like to hear about the other workshops.

[john horscroft]

Anyone thinking of going along to any of the workshops/meetings/chinwags??   

[erm, sam]

Well i am interested, but haven't actually thought "right I'm going".

[Johnny Brown]

Going to try and make at least a couple of the recreation ('enjoying') nature/ heritage ('enhancing') and the land management ('working') ones.

[john horscroft]

I'll see you at the recreation one then JB and, probably, the land management one..... 

[john horscroft]

Went along to the first workshop which, apart from an over-reliance on coporate speak gobbledeegook was pretty useful. The new site manager seems a good egg and seems ready to increase the range of bridleways pretty pronto  He's keen to see the top of Curbar/Froggatt become a B/W and also some of the existing trails on Totley.  Obviously there'll be more discussion about that at next tuesday's Recreation Workshop.

[Norton Sharley]

To allow everyone else a change to Enjoy, Enhance and Work together I shall graciously not be attending tonight.  Any info on what happens in my absence gratefully received ....

[john horscroft]

To allow everyone else a change to Enjoy, Enhance and Work together I shall graciously not be attending tonight.  Any info on what happens in my absence gratefully received ....

You don't get off that easily your Sharleyness 

New website http://www.easternmoors.org.uk/ where you can add your thoughts.

As to last night's shindig, pretty positive I thought. Certain amount of steam let off by the horsey folk and the ramblers, but the new partnership are keen to point out that no one user group is considered more important than any other.  They intend to open up a number of new trails to create, (excuse descent into corporate bollocks) better connectivity between different areas.  If they get to take on the larger area being discussed, ie, the Sheffield City owned moors of Houndkirk, Burbage, Hathersage and maybe even PDNPA owned North Lees, the scope for a good network of trails is impressive.  They intend to carry on talking to the different user groups, so watch this space. 

[gingerninja]

does this mean there may actually be some real biking trails being built in the peak? or will it be more of the same, here ride this wide open boring trail, oh and watch out for 4x4's, walkers and horses. come on we need something like glentress here in the peak, keep us away from the bike haters.

[john horscroft]

does this mean there may actually be some real biking trails being built in the peak? or will it be more of the same, here ride this wide open boring trail, oh and watch out for 4x4's, walkers and horses. come on we need something like glentress here in the peak, keep us away from the bike haters.

Interesting.  I once thought along similar lines, but with the current fad for turning all bridleways into motorways, I'm now more concerned with saving the good natural riding we've got.  So, no chance of a Glentress springing up in the Eastern Moors, that's for sure.  What will happen, all being well, is more connecting trails allowing riders to make their way from, say, Totley moor all the way over Big Moor to Curbar, Froggatt, Longshaw Estate onto Burbage.  Much of this will be on existing trails that will simply change designation but some will be new trails, ie, Big Moor.  Now, the chances of that being sinuous single track with doubles, tabletops, berms and rock gardens is, I'm guessing, remote.  However, the more that mountain bikers turn up to the meeting, the more chance there is that we'll get something that is to our taste.  There was a pretty good turn out at last night's meeting, but we need to keep the pressure up by turning up to EVERY meeting.  Fucking boring I know, but that's the way you influence what happens 

[Norton Sharley]

Sorry but there is a great route over Big Moor called White Edge.  It may not be legal but it's ace.  Why would I want it converted to a six foot wide hardcore surfaced track so that I can get to Curbar and Frogatt's equally ruined surface?  Or are they talking about going over Barbrook Reservoir?  I bet not?  Why do we need a new boring trail to link up the other boring trails?

There is nothing on the website about what their remit may involve and you have revealed nothing further John.  Is this because they don't know what their remit is?

[john horscroft]

Sorry but there is a great route over Big Moor called White Edge.  It may not be legal but it's ace.  Why would I want it converted to a six foot wide hardcore surfaced track so that I can get to Curbar and Frogatt's equally ruined surface?  Or are they talking about going over Barbrook Reservoir?  I bet not?  Why do we need a new boring trail to link up the other boring trails?

There is nothing on the website about what their remit may involve and you have revealed nothing further John.  Is this because they don't know what their remit is?

Christ!  What did I say to piss you off!     There's no chance they're going to do anything to White Edge.  It will remain a footpath and as vulnerable to 'improvement' as any other footpath.  Funny you should mention Bar brook Res because the Bar Brook valley is a possible for the through route.  And what's so bad about linking routes?  If they get you over to some decent natural trails, surely that's what we all want?

As for their 'remit', it is primarily to look after the wildlife habitats of the moors, but within that, they are committed to increasing public access.  The public consultation is designed to find out from the people who use the moors what their aspirations are and then formulate a policy taking those aspirations into account.  Yes it may all turn out to be pie in the fucking sky, but we should at least give them a chance surely?  Same old story fella - if you don't go to the meetings and try to influence the process, you can't moan afterwards.   

[Snoops]

Sorry but there is a great route over Big Moor called White Edge.  It may not be legal but it's ace.  Why would I want it converted to a six foot wide hardcore surfaced track so that I can get to Curbar and Frogatt's equally ruined surface? 

Nice, we all give the 4x4 c**ts grief for running over houndkirk, and yet your quite happy to ride over a public footpath/trod that is just as susceptible to erosion. If we all did that white edge would be trashed, but we don't.

[gingerninja]

i read a report a few years ago that said the erosion caused by bikes on paths is no more that a walker would do. the only issue i see with riding on footpaths is running walkers over, but you still get that on bridleways too.

[gingerninja]

this wasnt what i read but is along the same lines. http://www.imba.org.uk/research_and_reports/environmental_impact/natural_resource_impacts.html
makes for interesting reading.

[SA Chris]

i read a report a few years ago that said the erosion caused by bikes on paths is no more that a walker would do. the only issue i see with riding on footpaths is running walkers over, but you still get that on bridleways too.

Even if the erosion froma bike is no worse, it's fairly common knowledge that walkers don't like us bikers, for whatever reason, so bikers doing wrong only makes matters worse, and give the walking lobby an excuse for further ire. Difference with footpaths and brildeways is that other traffic is expected on bridleways and walkers should be accordingly aware. Not sating they always are, just that they should be.

[Snoops]

i read a report a few years ago that said the erosion caused by bikes on paths is no more that a walker would do. the only issue i see with riding on footpaths is running walkers over, but you still get that on bridleways too.

I don't want to sidetrack this thread into whose worse at what, but there are plenty of reports/papers saying the opposite to that.

e.g  http://www.culturechange.org/mountain_biking_impacts.htm

Your linked paper is on the IMBA site and so probaly biased. My report is probaly from someone who hates MB's and equally biased, its a bit like the bible you can justify anything

Anyway my point was not anti-biking I'm a MB myself, just pointing out its a bit like access issues for climbing,  a minority who don't follow the rules can have an impact on others/stuff.

Anyway lets get back to the thread..

[gingerninja]

that was the first thing i found on the web. i read something by the environment agency in mbr a bit back.
you are right tho and it seems it is indeed a bible-esque argument 

[john horscroft]

I know I'm conspiring with this transparent attempt to hijack the thread  but why is this such a big issue?  Plainly the law is an ass becuase in many other countries walkers and bikers co-exist.  In Scotland, a trail is a trail, open to all and there's no evidence that i'm aware of that fights break out on a regular basis!  In the rest of europe, this false distinction between bikers and walkers doesn't exist.  What I find particularly galling is that the fight for access was led by the socialist walking groups of the thirties and now we have to put up with this elitist crap - all trail users are equal, but some are more equal than others... 

[gingerninja]

its because the english like to band together in little groups and hate other little groups. you only have to look at football to see that in action. they aren't happy unless they are moaning about someone else lol.

[burned]

John, the law may be in our favour in scotland but there is a reason that Glentress exists, holy crap the ramblers used to hate us.. I have been attacked my walking sticks, well trained dogs and people actually jumping in front of me to prove that I couldnt stop if I needed to.

As for all the documentation regarding our erosion levels.. well, that is really at the discretion of whoever is writing the paper. A cross country rider weighing 10stone with v-brakes on a 25lb bike is going to do a lot less damage than a 13 stone giant riding a demo-9 who likes likes late braking and hucking off small dogs... although in all fairness he has probably walked up the hill...

Its all common sense, trails need to be looked after, its always fun to go out and ride when its crap weather, but some places are more appropriate than others? we will cycle through a puddle.. walkers always go around making the scar bigger.. we are all to blame really, but it all comes down to funding for the trails at the end of the day.