[Fiend]

My trad rucsac contains the following:

1 belay plate *
2 hms screwgates *
1 screwgate w/ prussics *
2 slings w/ screwgates *
2m of spare tat *
2 krabs w/ small wires *
1 krab w/ large wires & small hexes *
1 krab w/ peenuts & rps *
1 set camalots w/ wiregates *
4 medium hexes w/ wiregates *
8 small quickdraws *
2 medium quickdraws *
2 long quickdraws *
1 krab w/ misc offsets sliders tricams *
1 pair velcro 'stazis *
1 pair Galileos *
1 lightweight helmet *
1 harness *
1 chalkbag w/brush *
Spare chalk *
Rag *
Midge spray *
Camera *
Plastic water bottle *
Thin windproof *
Snood *
Snacks *

* - items with an asterisk are either essential or very likely to be useful.

I tend to struggle uphill for obvious reasons and am wondering if there is any way to trim this down so I have less weight to carry?? Unfortunately there is the slight issue that I've already honed my rack and can't think of anything to get rid of. The only think I can think of is to replace my quickdraws and slings with lighter ones....IIRC I calculated that would save a couple of KG, hmm.

Any thoughts??

[slackline]

Tailor what you're taking with you to venue.  If single-pitch do you really need double set of nuts (perhaps just a few overlaps), and whilst essential very likely to be useful perhaps leave the specialist gear at home unless you know you're going to need it (e.g. offset sliders).

If you're happy using someone else's rack why not share, one person taking gear, the other ropes.

If all else fails...

[Will Hunt]

Could you do without the hexes. I know a lot of people abandon them totally but I just keep nuts 1-10 (doubled up if on mountain trad) and a couple of the bigger hexes.

On very long pitches I take up to 16 QDs so I wouldn't lose any in quantity!

Do offsets, sliders and tricams really need to go everywhere? I usually only take the tricams if I know that something hard might get done or if its a quarry. While I appreciate that you'll most like be climbing harder trad the me do you really need to have the sliders with you at all times?!

Do 2 pairs of shoes always need to go to the crag?

Spare chalk? Just fill 'er up before you go.

Rag? That's what the shins of your trousers are for.

I don't know what a snood is but if its some sort of mastubation aid then it can probably stay on the bedside table.


I think the main thing I see here is gear from different disciplines all packed into the same bag. If you're going outcrop climbing then take all the small fiddly shit but leave the tat at home. If you're going out for a long day on mid grade mountain routes then the sliders probably aren't going to come out of the bag and the second set of shoes can get left behind.

[Paul B]

DMM Phantoms, the weight difference when comparing a full set of these to my Petzl draws is incredible. People who like to clip with a finger in the bottom of the biner (fools) will get their fingers stuck.

I've got these on most of my gear (look at me) and they're fantastic.

Apart from that, single wired rocks? Lightweight harness, thinner ropes etc.

Just go out and buy lightweight versions of anything you can see and afford.

[tomtom]

Its that red camo snood thats weighing you down 

[chillax]

Seems like a pretty well rounded rack really. Pretty much the same as mine only I don't have any offsets of sliders and only one tricam. What kind of wiregates do you use? Replacing them all with something like the DMM Phantom could possibly save a fair bit of heft? Or substitutung Camalots with DMM 4CU's? I've seen old-school hexes that look like swiss cheese with drilled out holes where people have tried to save weight on them.....though you have to balance weight saving with structural integrity.

Damn, Paul beat me to it about the Phantoms!

[Paul B]

Damn, Paul beat me to it about the Phantoms!

Don't worry he's a fool who needs telling twice, or maybe even thrice, anyone?

[Jaspersharpe]

Its that red camo snood thats weighing you down 

Yeah fucking burn the monstrosity.

[Fiend]

Tailor what you're taking with you to venue.  If single-pitch do you really need double set of nuts (perhaps just a few overlaps),

Yup cos I'm often doing fairly full pitches.

and whilst essential very likely to be useful perhaps leave the specialist gear at home unless you know you're going to need it (e.g. offset sliders).

Often want those with me as I generally like pushing myself on stuff I might find bold. (They're also a small amount of the weight)

If you're happy using someone else's rack why not share, one person taking gear, the other ropes.

Not happy with someone else's rack as mine is invariably objectively superior, but I will suggest to more people they use mine.

More like it!

Could you do without the hexes.

Not really. I don't have the largest sizes with me anyway, I always take the mediums and the larges are useful in case the route demands them and for belays / ab anchors to save on cams.

Do 2 pairs of shoes always need to go to the crag?

Yes, need the comfier pair for easier routes and the tighter pair for hard ones.

Spare chalk? Just fill 'er up before you go.

Will still run out. ALWAYS need spare chalk.

Rag? That's what the shins of your trousers are for.

Maybe but some of the places I go can be pretty soggy.

[sidewinder]

Further to what slack-line said about tailoring the gear, doesn't look too excessive to me!  Some suggestions although only with small weight losses.

Rather than clove hitch to HMS'/screwgates when setting up your anchor you can just figure eight the rope onto your belay loop, this way you can get away with less screwgates. Likewise if you desire switch the screwgates on your slings to snapgates.

Also I notice you have quite a lot of short quickdraws, is that because you generally have to extend your camalots?  I use DMM 4cu's and find their extendable slings mean I can normally get away without needing a qd, might be a possible way to save weight.

Also, don't know what your rope selection/typical venue is like but I have discovered the joy of taking my 30m 'wall' rope to most of the Eastern Grit crags.  Saves loads of weight and also time in rope coiling/uncoiling, not so good at millstone though!

Also another area where you might be able to lose some weight is the rucksack itself.

Well done on the 8a by the way.

[Fiend]

DMM Phantoms, the weight difference when comparing a full set of these to my Petzl draws is incredible. People who like to clip with a finger in the bottom of the biner (fools) will get their fingers stuck.

I've got these on most of my gear (look at me) and they're fantastic.

Apart from that, single wired rocks? Lightweight harness, thinner ropes etc.

Just go out and buy lightweight versions of anything you can see and afford.

And therein lies the crux of the issue. Good suggestion except you have to have girls / teenage piano prodigy fingers to make any use of the Phantoms (Spectres would do me....I need proper krabs not accessory krabs). Superlight rocks would be nice too.... BUT then Krabs alone would be £240-ish....then tapes etc etc....

And no it's a black snood you choadchewer Sharpe.

[Fiend]

Rather than clove hitch to HMS'/screwgates when setting up your anchor you can just figure eight the rope onto your belay loop, this way you can get away with less screwgates. Likewise if you desire switch the screwgates on your slings to snapgates.

Good point but I have one HMS for belaying and one HMS for anchoring at my waist...keeps things simple. Two screwgates for anchoring purposes, if I need more I double up krabs.

Also I notice you have quite a lot of short quickdraws, is that because you generally have to extend your camalots?  I use DMM 4cu's and find their extendable slings mean I can normally get away without needing a qd, might be a possible way to save weight.

Not really, I just place lots of pro! I only extend cams if they really need it. Rucsac is pretty minimal too.
PaulB is trying to convince me of superskinny ropes, he has a point but I am far too scared for that.

[Paul B]

Good suggestion except you have to have girls / teenage piano prodigy fingers to make any use of the Phantoms (Spectres would do me....I need proper krabs not accessory krabs). Superlight rocks would be nice too.... BUT then Krabs alone would be £240-ish....then tapes etc etc....

I think you're really going to struggle if your answers are "I need that" and "lightweight stuff is too small" make a compromise somewhere.

I only really became aware of how heavy ropes were when trailing one on long stuff where the entire weight was on me, not a ledge (thanks Nat).  I'm not sure how skinny you can go on doubles but with singles being ~9mm I'm thinking just under ~8mm?

[andy popp]

You could swap racks with me, you'd be sorted then.

[ben87]

Damn, Paul beat me to it about the Phantoms!

Don't worry he's a fool who needs telling twice, or maybe even thrice, anyone?

Try swapping the crabs on your quickdraws for phantoms  . Biggest saving will probably be rope. I've recently enjoyed carrying a thinish double instead of my old 10.2mm single.
Maybe try swapping your harness, you didn't say what your using but the standard WC elite adjustable weighs in at 570 grams, the new ultralite is around 330 and I think some arc'teryx harnesses weigh in just under 300. You could swap your larger camalots for the larger dragons. The dragons area a few grams lighter across the sizes but the saving comes when you don't have to carry an extra quickdraw to extend your placements. You could try the andy kirkpatrick school of thought and just double up on functionality and carry less.

Or you could be the coolest kid at the crag?

[SA Chris]

I just place lots of pro!

You could add a larger pair of testicles to your rack

[Drew]

* - items with an asterisk are either essential or very likely to be useful.

So that's everything then?

I'm afraid that I can only second everyone else.
Get DMM Phantoms. They're fucking great. They aren't too small either. Borrow someone's. You'll see. If you disagree get Spectre2's. Or possibly WC Heliums.
Get DMM Phantom/Shadow SG's, and the Sentinel HMS.
Get skinny ropes. You can get away with about 7.8mm as a half rope. You might prefer 8 - 8.5mm.
Pod's Cragsac, and the Osprey Talon are around 1kg. Alternatively strip all the shit from your current rucksack. Take off the lid. Take off the hipbelt on shorter walk-ins. Take off useless compression bits. Cut off stuff, if you aren't arsed about the warranty.
Get an Arc'Teryx harness.
Get some Inov8's for the walk-in. And some walking poles. And Man Up!

[mrjonathanr]

Do you really need so many screwgates? I carry 2, and one of them is on my belay plate.

[stevej]

The WC xenon lights are almost as light as phantoms (there's literally 1 or 2 grams in it and I'd be surprised if they're not both made in the same factory with the same kit) but are nearly half the price at rocknrun

[Drew]

The WC xenon lights are almost as light as phantoms (there's literally 1 or 2 grams in it and I'd be surprised if they're not both made in the same factory with the same kit)

I think you'll find that the Helium is the only WC krab which DMM make currently.

[SA Chris]

And some walking poles.

Not a bad idea actually. Definitly takes some of the load off the legs. I always use at leas one on winter walk ins, can definitely move faster, especially on less than perfect surfaces.

[Fiend]

Drew I'll man up as soon as I have any venous return through my pelvic area...

Walking poles are on the list, yes.

Phantoms....let's try again I AM NOT GETTING ANY PHANTOMS. I have used a friends and they are just too small. I gotta climb with this shit as well as admire how few grams it weighs.

Spectre 2s, yes, they ARE feasible.

Replace with Dragons, too expensive, plus I don't carry extra quickdraws for cams.

Skinnier ropes....hmmm....I might start giving this a try, within reason, again I gotta climb on them and pieces of fucking bootlace beneath me terrify me.

Harness has gotta be functional too.

I've already shaved stuff off my rucsac.

Less screwgates, hmmm. I will muse on that. I could certainly get lighter I-beam ones.

One thing I have realised is that my cam / hex krabs are already hotwires, so the weight saving going to Spectres would be a minimal for the cost involved. Thus I'd only be replacing quickdraws, that might be realistic... Plus the screwgates....and use superlight rocks as my default 2nd wires...

[Bonjoy]

You've got to think outside of the box.
Why slim down? Just visit the local fair and buy all the helium balloons you can afford, job done.
Or buy yourself a nice mangonel/trebuchet, some industrial bubble wrap and a large roll of gaffer tape.
Or do a big poo before you go to the crag (perhaps using your produce as ranging ammo for said mangonel/trebuchet, surely there must already be some good beta for this in shooting the shit  ).

[Fiend]

Good ideas Bonjoy - at least you aren't suggesting nonsense like "leave the sliders" . I particularly like the trebuchet one. The massive dump tends to happen upon seeing the route / gearing up tho....I wonder if there is a way to advance that process??

[slackline]

The massive dump tends to happen upon seeing the route / gearing up tho....I wonder if there is a way to advance that process??

Bring the route closer with binoculars.