[tim palmer]

Slightly off topic Wiggins-Froome 2012, was wiggins gifted the tour?

I am pleased kuss is going to win,  deserves it for pulling Jonas and primoz up countless hills over the past few years.  The last time on the  angliru he bailed out primoz in a major way did he not?

[Offwidth]

Surely the strongest rider should be winning a Grand Tour.

There are plenty of examples down the years on bike races where the strongest rider didn't win because of: within the team,  the team leader being given priority over a stronger super domestique; and outside the team a stronger team leader in another team lacking quality team support. Team time trial stages actively benefit the richer teams with more strength in depth. That's before we look at tnings like sport washing and potential drug cheats.

[Paul B]

I'd be interested to see 'strongest rider' defined even within Jumbo's recent TdF lineup.

[highrepute]

Well we got what we asked for GC Kiss. And it was boring!

On the subject of Jonas's performance in the TdF time trial meaning he's doping. Does this mean all outlying performances are doped. This image makes Powell and Bolt look like serious drug users.

[Paul B]

No, it doesn't. However, when someone is putting out a power (W/kg) far greater than everyone else all of a sudden and that  effort registers above power curves derived from the "ate a steak" era then it's hardly surprising that a few people raise their eyebrows? Jonas trounced Pog when Pog registered a ridiculously good power output for the stage.

Power is beautifully simple as a measure and removes the majority of uncertainty regarding external influences that a measure such as time (as you've posted) doesn't.

[joel182]

Well we got what we asked for GC Kiss. And it was boring!

On the subject of Jonas's performance in the TdF time trial meaning he's doping. Does this mean all outlying performances are doped. This image makes Powell and Bolt look like serious drug users.

I mean, yeah, we should think Powell and Bolt were using PEDs? Powell literally tested positive for performanceenhancing drugs when he was competing - though fortunately for him some supplement manufacturer had apparently been putting drugs in the supplement he was taking when he tested positive.



The all-time men’s 100m list with names associated with doping crossed off

[remus]

Well we got what we asked for GC Kiss. And it was boring!

On the subject of Jonas's performance in the TdF time trial meaning he's doping. Does this mean all outlying performances are doped. This image makes Powell and Bolt look like serious drug users.

Not that I necessarily disagree with your overall point, but I don't find that graph very convincing. Where did that trend line come from? Why does it level off there? Why are those error bars that size?

I'm generally pretty skeptical of claims along the lines of "the limit of human performance in sport X is y".

[highrepute]

Well we got what we asked for GC Kiss. And it was boring!

On the subject of Jonas's performance in the TdF time trial meaning he's doping. Does this mean all outlying performances are doped. This image makes Powell and Bolt look like serious drug users.

Not that I necessarily disagree with your overall point, but I don't find that graph very convincing. Where did that trend line come from? Why does it level off there? Why are those error bars that size?

I'm generally pretty skeptical of claims along the lines of "the limit of human performance in sport X is y".

I agree, I thought the same about that graph in the TdF thread that was used to suggest Jonas doped.

No, it doesn't. However, when someone is putting out a power (W/kg) far greater than everyone else all of a sudden and that  effort registers above power curves derived from the "ate a steak" era then it's hardly surprising that a few people raise their eyebrows? Jonas trounced Pog when Pog registered a ridiculously good power output for the stage.

Power is beautifully simple as a measure and removes the majority of uncertainty regarding external influences that a measure such as time (as you've posted) doesn't.

Jonas hasn't released his power data so any figures youve seen must be estimated based on time and external influences.

Well we got what we asked for GC Kiss. And it was boring!

On the subject of Jonas's performance in the TdF time trial meaning he's doping. Does this mean all outlying performances are doped. This image makes Powell and Bolt look like serious drug users.

I mean, yeah, we should think Powell and Bolt were using PEDs? Powell literally tested positive for performanceenhancing drugs when he was competing - though fortunately for him some supplement manufacturer had apparently been putting drugs in the supplement he was taking when he tested positive.



The all-time men’s 100m list with names associated with doping crossed off

Christ that's pretty depressing.

[Paul B]

Jonas hasn't released his power data so any figures youve seen must be estimated based on time and external influences.

Correct, but not blindly, and I think it's a useful model. The article is linked in the TdF thread and is caveated as follows:
https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,15446.msg680068.html#msg680068

The Dane did the climb on a time-trial bike and we included in the calculation a lower CdA than usual and back-tested the calculations on different riders who posted their power on Strava. However standing behind the accuracy of the calculation is more difficult than usual due to the use of a time-trial bike and his high speed on the climb.

With the context of the TT following a performance where Jonas looked wrecked (then a rest day) and then the comments he himself made about the power data on his head unit being wild (this is v. weird) then as I said, it's enough to make me raise my eyebrows (and that of course doesn't mean I'm correct). Perhaps the Ketones are just THAT good? Shame they taste like shit:


I fear we're going off topic.

For the Vuelta, there's a reel on Insta showing Gee talking about Roglic putting time into Kuss and it being unnecessary if anyone needed another opinion on the matter.

[highrepute]

Yes, very much my fault for dragging it off topic.

G's podcast Watts Occuring is very good for a bit of insight into the peleton from point view of a Welshman.

[Paul B]

G's podcast Watts Occuring is very good for a bit of insight into the peleton from point view of a Welshman.

A no nonsense insight I assume (on brand)?

Remco was fairly impressive chasing back on today but just didn't quite have enough at the finish.

That's a good season for JV!