The BMC is a bit too large, a bit too complicated and a bit too cumbersome; is trying to do and be too many different things;
So some common ground \o/
Quote from: Davo on June 23, 2017, 08:48:07 amPersonally I just want my subs to be used in the most effective way to gain the most "bang for buck" to promote things I value in climbing. More people taking part is not something I value and therefore I don't want it promoted. DaveIs this really what you think? If a friend said to you "can i come climbing with you?"would you tell them "no, more people taking part in climbing is not something I value".I imagine you wouldn't say that instead you'd introduce them to climbing. So why is your friend allowed to have climbing promoted to them but not "other" people? What kind of other person starting climbing specifically do you have a problem with?
Personally I just want my subs to be used in the most effective way to gain the most "bang for buck" to promote things I value in climbing. More people taking part is not something I value and therefore I don't want it promoted. Dave
Quote from: highrepute on June 24, 2017, 06:43:32 pmQuote from: Davo on June 23, 2017, 08:48:07 amPersonally I just want my subs to be used in the most effective way to gain the most "bang for buck" to promote things I value in climbing. More people taking part is not something I value and therefore I don't want it promoted. DaveIs this really what you think? If a friend said to you "can i come climbing with you?"would you tell them "no, more people taking part in climbing is not something I value".I imagine you wouldn't say that instead you'd introduce them to climbing. So why is your friend allowed to have climbing promoted to them but not "other" people? What kind of other person starting climbing specifically do you have a problem with?That really is a bizarre way to interpret what I have written! I don't really see the link between my not wanting one of the BMC's aims to be promotion of climbing and my willingness to take a friend out climbing.Just so I am clear, I am on a personal level happy to introduce people to climbing and my reasons for not wishing the BMC to promote climbing have nothing to do with the crags getting busier or not wanting others to enjoy the experience. It is simply that I think the BMC should concentrate on representing the interests of the members and sorting out things like access. If you choose to interpret that to mean I wouldn't help someone learn how to climb or begrudge others getting into climbing then so be it.
I'm thinking about providing support to school clubs, helping indoor climbers get outdoors, providing advice to people who are venturing out to try trad/sport/bouldering/ice/alpine/mountain/hills etc for the first time, encouraging more minorities, youth, women, deprived background to get into climbing. These are things I see value in even though I might not get any direct benefit (although if some young beast has been on and chalked up my next trad onsight I'll not complain).Perhaps Shark is thinking on further promotion than this? You do mention an aim being to increase participation - how might this be done?
DavoTake one aspect of pro-participation (by default) that the BMC is actively engaged in - equality (equity) and youth. Do you think that the BMCs attempts to remove barriers for underrepresented socia-economic, age, race or gender groups to encourage those groups (particularly at a time when locally funded outdoor education is on the decline) to participate in our great sport isn't a good thing? It's not a major part of our work but it is something we currently do.
The point is what number targets the BMC has in mind for increased participation in our activity - which has access issues, environmental impact and limited capacity at its popular areas. To a lesser degree is the question of how much time, money (Sport England funds acknowledged) and effort climbing's member organisation puts into encouraging those things over other things.I'm assuming the BMC *does* have a target number in mind and a timescale, for increased participation in climbing...? Just like I assume you, as commercial consultant, have been given a target figure and timescale for 'increased commercial revenue'. Otherwise you could turn over an extra quid and have achieved your aim of 'increased revenue'; and one extra Asian teenager from Toxteth going to Stanage in the next five yeasrs would achieve the aim of increased participation from minority-represented groups.
If the BMC becomes a charity - does that mean I'll see you chugging at Piccadilly - waving a collection tin in the faces of passing commuters?
Quote from: tomtom on June 27, 2017, 08:34:44 pmIf the BMC becomes a charity - does that mean I'll see you chugging at Piccadilly - waving a collection tin in the faces of passing commuters?The liberal, hand wringing, burghers of West Didsbury will be a handier and softer target