[dave]

Background - week away in val di mello bouldering. Warm and sunny, plenty of beer in the evenings. Climbing Ok. Until now never really had anything i'd call a finger injury in 13 years of climbing.

Final day of the trip last saturday, 7th day on in one form or another. Limited time so we get on a superb looking 7c+ in the village. Pretty big holds all round, warm up by doing some of the easy moves a few times, deadhanging etc, gradually building up to a few moves at a time. All seemed to be well. Sack it off when we have to leave for the airport.

Then some time afterwards, probably later that day, I notice something feeling not totally right. Left hand, middle finger feels a little bit sore.

Been trying to work out what is up this week, not climbed. Symptoms:

Slight ache if I tense up and move the finger. (scratch that, I have that on all fingers...)
No restriction to movement, everything OK there.
No swelling.
No pain or discomfort when deadhanging openhanded.
No pain in a half-crimped/flat grip although if i think hard enough I can feel something.
Mild-to-middling ache when crimping deadhanging (or simulating that grip on a table, other hand etc), mainly just as I let go. Seems to be somewhere around the first joint (one nearest to the fingertip) but its hard to place cos its a dull thing not a sharp pain. No pain in wrist/palm/otherfingers etc.
Placing the hand flat face down and trying to make a fist against the table gives no discomfort, all OK.

So thats it. Basically don't know where to start cos I never get injured, and most of the advice i've casually read on the web over the years seems to be pretty contradictory and generally non-specific. Icing good, icing bad? Taping good, taping bad? etc etc Any help would be appreciated.

My gut feeling is just to go climbing and see how it is, take it easy etc. However what the fuck do I know. I just hoped this day would never come.....Question?

[Andy B]

That must have come on slowly.

The best advice I can give you is: under no circumstances listen to Scouse's, Cofe's or my advice.

I would have thought it will be a pulley tweak, although dull ache doesn't sound right. Hope it turns out to be nothing.

[dave]

The best advice I can give you is: under no circumstances listen to Scouse's, Cofe's or my advice.

Don't worry I've already sold my approach shoes, goalie gloves and golfclubs. Although if I listen to your above post and ignore your advice, then I get stuck in some kind of perpetual logic loop....or do I.....AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH.

[Scouse D]

I just wrote a massive reply then scrapped it! I'll phone you word, got some icing tips that do work.
As long as you practice what I preach and not practice what I practice you should be fine!

[dave]

Nice one word. I'm pretty keen not to spend eternity going from pillar to post in injuryville. I want to be the pope of crimptown.

[Fultonius]

Inside, outside or within your joint?

Might just be some inflammation of the tendon, joint or pulley. Rest, Ice, take it easy, go see someone who knows what they're talking about


Sounds like the start of some type of overuse. If it hurts crimping, don't crimp for a while! (Sorry for stating the obvious...)

[SA Chris]

ice ice baby. Can never do harm. Unless you go mental and give yourself frostbite.

Apparently key to ice is change in temp, not coldness itself, so give it a good icing then allow to warm up again. Repeat.

Disclaimer applies - I know fuck all etc.

[dave]

Inside, outside or within your joint?

I don't really get you (is inside different to within?), but either way:......

its hard to place cos its a dull thing not a sharp pain

Ice sounds like a good idea.

[Paul B]

Try to avoid testing it all the time. That certainly doesn't help. However, any pain when twisting the finger or pinching with it straightened?

If it doesn't scream A2 (i.e. pain in the base of the finger somewhere) I'm going to be on a collateral strain. I've been finding mummification taping (rather than the old skool cross taping) to work pretty well although its f*cking annoying.

[dave]

Try to avoid testing it all the time.

My bad. 

However, any pain when twisting the finger or pinching with it straightened?

No, and no.

If it doesn't scream A2 (i.e. pain in the base of the finger somewhere) I'm going to be on a collateral strain. I've been finding mummification taping (rather than the old skool cross taping) to work pretty well although its f*cking annoying.

Word, nice knowledge, I did wonder about taping. Also if i crimp up with fingers squeezed together a bit more than normal this doesn't seem to hurt, presumably cos its getting more support from the neighbouring digits. Is taping it to another finger a good idea then or bullshit?

[Bonjoy]

I just wrote a massive reply then scrapped it! I'll phone you word, got some icing tips that do work.
As long as you practice what I preach and not practice what I practice you should be fine!

Not these by any chance are they?

Can't see how they're supposed to help with finger injury yoot

[Fultonius]

Inside, outside or within your joint?

I don't really get you (is inside different to within?), but either way:......

Inside - i.e. between the bone and the skin on the palm side.

Outside - same but on the back side of the finger.

Within - feels like the joint itself is hurting.

Try to avoid testing it all the time. That certainly doesn't help. However, any pain when twisting the finger or pinching with it straightened?

If it doesn't scream A2 (i.e. pain in the base of the finger somewhere) I'm going to be on a collateral strain. I've been finding mummification taping (rather than the old skool cross taping) to work pretty well although its f*cking annoying.

 

Could also be where the tendon joins the bone (just beyond the first joint, nearer the tip) 

[dave]

Inside, outside or within your joint?

I don't really get you (is inside different to within?), but either way:......

Inside - i.e. between the bone and the skin on the palm side.

Outside - same but on the back side of the finger.

Within - feels like the joint itself is hurting.

its just generally feels like within, perhaps slightly towards the palm side. hard to say though.

[Paul B]

Is taping it to another finger a good idea then or bullshit?

I'd see somebody with more knowledge than me. Maybe le sausage will be on to point out some tips however I can't see much point buddy taping, if you mummify it, it'll keep it out of painful positions as the b*stard simply won't bend enough to crimp and that way it doesn't restrict any of the other fingers.

Rest, Ice and stop fiddling is always a good start.

[dave]

yeah I'm hoping the jerry moffatt tribute physio will wade in with some choice words.

[cofe]

buddy taping always seemed bogus to me, unless a finger is really fucked, which this doesn't sound like it is. no fiddling, plenty of water, ice if necessary.

[Fultonius]

And you say you weren't crimping much all week? 

[dave]

update: went climbing last night, tried to avoid badass crimping on it and it seemed OK, couldn't really feel anything untoward so I can only assume the bit of rest and icing is already working, i'll keep going with it. So right now i'm cautiously optimistic. Thanks for the advice everyone.

[Lord Lucan]

don't want to thread jack but same topic so thought i might aswell jump in....

had this issue with my right hand finger for a while now, it came on gradual, i never felt anything "go"



^ this is where the pain is,  for a while I couldn't move the finger (to make a fist) to 100%, it felt all ceased.  No pain crimping, jugs, nothing - only if that part of my finger had pressure on it, then it was PAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIN.

stopped climbing ten days, regained full movement of the finger, went climbing today, was climbing good, everything kosher, got bored and tried a silly dyno to a big jug, the impact of myfinger landing on it was excruciating, its never hurt that much before , so now its fucked again....

..... usual shit... treatment? I know more time out is inevitable, but that ten days just killed me, what kinda excersizes can I do to keep my strength  / fitness, maybe circuits of easy shit?  Or is any climbing on it gona fuck me and slow down healing long term... I keep reading about this "active rest" malarky and tell myself thats what i will do, I'm not sre if i have the will power tho

[Lord Lucan]

my gosh, my language is not good there.  I must apologise, i have been drinking ales and crying

[erm, sam]

Why are you asking questions that you already know the answer to?

stopped climbing ten days, regained full movement of the finger, went climbing today, was climbing good, everything kosher, got bored and tried a silly dyno to a big jug,

It is not rocket science you know. You were on the road to recovery until you started being silly.

[Snoops]

Going to way in my finger as well!
Like Dave never had a finger injury ever.
Last week tweaked 1st finger (one after thumb)
Pain is on the sides at the base of the finger (i.e near the knuckle) when squeezed.
No pain underneath the finger, so fairly sure it is not the tendon.
Full range of movement, little bit of pain  on the top and sides of base of finger on squeezing ball

Is this a pulley prob? How do you tape for this ( Iwill rest it first)? Thanks for any advice.

[douglas]

have a read of this

 http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=54299398469&topic=9293

[carlostevez]

Lol that pic was funny dude.  I am still recovering from a finger injury, something so bloody small takes a lifetime to heal!

[Paul B]

Going to way in my finger as well!
Like Dave never had a finger injury ever.
Last week tweaked 1st finger (one after thumb)
Pain is on the sides at the base of the finger (i.e near the knuckle) when squeezed.
No pain underneath the finger, so fairly sure it is not the tendon.
Full range of movement, little bit of pain  on the top and sides of base of finger on squeezing ball

Is this a pulley prob? How do you tape for this ( Iwill rest it first)? Thanks for any advice.

Errr?

[Snoops]

Going to way in my finger as well!
Like Dave never had a finger injury ever.
Last week tweaked 1st finger (one after thumb)
Pain is on the sides at the base of the finger (i.e near the knuckle) when squeezed.
No pain underneath the finger, so fairly sure it is not the tendon.
Full range of movement, little bit of pain  on the top and sides of base of finger on squeezing ball

Is this a pulley prob? How do you tape for this ( Iwill rest it first)? Thanks for any advice.

Errr?

Yes a little research shows the FDS tendon running along the finger which can be damaged, which is what is held using the Annular pulleys. The symptoms for this is pain underneath the finger only. Hence I ruled that out.
 Anyways I saw Aussie John and it is my A2 pulley. Thanks to the the others for the article links.

[slackline]

I think the point Paul B was making is that pulley == tendon.

Some Finger anatomy and whilst googling I stumbled across the potentially useful www.climbinginjuries.com (and have added a link to the Wiki so that everyone can bypass it and ask the same question for the umpteenth time in the forums instead  )

[Fultonius]

Well, the annular pulleys are part of the flexor tendon system but they are separate entities, get injured in different ways and have different rehab protocols.

[slackline]

Are they not both fiborous connective tissue that connect muscle to bones and are therefore tendons (multiple tendons, Annular (A#)/Cruciform (C#)/Flexors/etc. constitute the system)? 

So the name for the specific tendon is the Annular 2 pulley, but its still a tendon!

[douglas]

I don't think pulleys are connected to muscles though slack---line. So I'd consider them not to be tendons, even if they are made of the same 'stuff'.

[Fultonius]

Are they not both fiborous connective tissue that connect muscle to bones and are therefore tendons (multiple tendons, Annular (A#)/Cruciform (C#)/Flexors/etc. constitute the system)? 

So the name for the specific tendon is the Annular 2 pulley, but its still a tendon!

Nope, pulleys could technically be referred to as ligaments - bone to bone = ligament; bone to muscle = tendon.

If you strain a pulley you can still climb open-handed, if you strain a tendon you'll need to rest it.

Although, someone medically trained will probably wade in with some SCIENCE pretty soon. 

[slackline]

Could only see the "origin" of the A1, A3 and A5 pulleys mentioned here so wasn't sure what they attached (muscle or bone) to at the other "end".  Should have read this first (or dug out Grey's Anatomy from under the pile of dust it currently resides under).