[Paul B]

Thanks for all the input. So far I've been taking it pretty easy having not done much trad for a while and having done very little slate.

Mental Lentils,
Looning.
etc.
I can't push it too far anyway or Nat simply won't follow.

Stupid question: Does anyone have any opinions on the masses of tiny wires on the market? Offset, peanuts wtf?

Not so psyched by the prospect of bomber gear being less than so.

[SA Chris]

called Slippery People I think

It is. Turn like a wheel inside a wheeeeeel.

[Nigel]

Paul, my experience is that of all the small nuts, probably the best are BD Astronuts. These seem to go in more placements and seat better than most other small nuts. I supplement these with HB offsets which don't go in as many placements but when they do are often the only thing that will. The new DMM IMPs (?) are copies of the old RP's and are probably good too (they have certainly stood the test of time), though I've never used them. The main thing is to avoid the very small standard nuts i.e. 0, quarter, half, three quarter rocks/wallnuts, they are absolutely useless.

[Andy B]

Stupid question: Does anyone have any opinions on the masses of tiny wires on the market? Offset, peanuts wtf?

Personally I used to find offsets very specific to particular placements, and uninspiringly insecure at most other times. I caarried a couple of the larger ones  (equivalent to about size 5/ 6 RP's. I don't know whats available now, but I prefered parallel sided, but with rounded corners, which reduced the occasions that they hung up and swung on edges, and maximised the chances of good surface area contact in placements.

Just remembered another good, safe easy end route in Vivian, called Pychosomething. A lot better than Mental Lentils (most slate routes are).

[Bonjoy]

I also like those BD ones, though I've not really used them on slate much. However I've heard that softer micros hold better in softer rock, so brass ones such as RPs or HB offset might have better holding power on slate than something like the BD ones. I guess it's a trade off between fit in placements and holding power.
The fact you are very light and have a light belayer means you're far less likely to rip a marginal placement than the average climber. Nice stretchy ropes and competent belaying (i.e. not being overzealous with the taking in of slack during a fall) also helps. Also, whilst it's true that some placements aren't as good as they look, in the main if something looks bomber it probably because it is bomber.
There are very few on the recomomended list where the only thing between you and the deck is RPs

[Paul B]

Paul, my experience is that of all the small nuts, probably the best are BD Astronuts.

edit: they're metolius.
edit 2: and they're not CE rated 

rip a marginal placement than the average climber. Nice stretchy ropes

Yeh, need to stop using my stubby sport qd's on everything mind you.

[Johnny Brown]

The main thing is to avoid the very small standard nuts i.e. 0, quarter, half, three quarter rocks/wallnuts, they are absolutely useless.

Yeah, the standard wire loop design doesn't work so well once the wire is limited by the size of the nut. The new WC ones with the single wire are quite good though.

[SA Chris]

Just remembered another good, safe easy end route in Vivian, called Pychosomething.

Psychotherapy.

And the only place I have found brass offsets indispensable is on the Culm. The odd little cracks take them well.

[Nigel]

Yeah that's them, they must have changed the name. If it makes you feel better I took an (unexpected) 40 foot fall onto an HB offset size 0 on slate, and it held fine.

[Johnny Brown]

Its always unexpected when the golden feet fall off.

[tomtom]

Try the stuff on the Conscience Slab (Vivian) 

Is it a crime? and 'never as good as the first time' Two top notch e3's (from memory) on the Conscience slab. Never as good (It was in 1993/4) had the most fantastic rock, udge, stand up move to get the second clip - absolutely superb one of the nicest moves I've felt on a rope...

[Paul B]

Its always unexpected when the golden feet fall off.

maybe he needs downgrading to

?

[tomtom]

Other vivian memories..
Psychotherapy is good (but easy)
Dervish is hard and not very nice
Last Tango in paris (R of dervish) is much better and safe (you can nail a flake full of gear)

[SA Chris]

Is it a crime? and 'never as good as the first time' Two top notch e3's (from memory) on the Conscience slab.

Always wondered if the FA was having a (probably retrospectively embarrassing) Sade moment when he did them.

[Andy B]

Sade song titles, but also a reference to the FA's mixed feelings regarding bolting the slab, I think.

I don't think Last Tango is safer than the Dervish. There is some BIG potentially loose stuff up there that I bet is raerly if ever tested. The only dodgy bit on the Dervish is the first few moves, which can be notionally protected, if you feel the need.

[tomtom]

Sade song titles, but also a reference to the FA's mixed feelings regarding bolting the slab, I think.

I don't think Last Tango is safer than the Dervish. There is some BIG potentially loose stuff up there that I bet is raerly if ever tested. The only dodgy bit on the Dervish is the first few moves, which can be notionally protected, if you feel the need.

Sorry - misunderstanding - I didnt mean LTIP was safer than Dervish - just that LTIP was safe (as in you can get loads of Medium gear all up that flake... You can plaster the dervish crack with small gear...

[Andy B]

Sorry Tom. I misread that. I still think there's potential to fuck yourself up on LTIP though. It's just that the climbing's so steady no-one is likely to fall off. Or maybe I was always just overcautious in my trust of slate's solidity.

[petejh]

Every slate route I've done in NWR up to E5 has been really good. Some routes not in NWR which are brill are:

G'Day Arete 6c and a few of the other sport routes on this level, Great Bores of Today 7a ish (Wow Wow E4 next to it supposed to be brill), Patellectomy E1, Where are my Sensible Shoes 7a+ ish, Jack of Shadows E4/7a.
Check out the slate wiki and research the old slate guide to find these routes, or wait until summer for the new guide. There's now quite a lot of pretty decent sport routes in the quarries that are hard to find without local knowledge.

Small wires - I think a combo of a set of wild country superlights and a set of dmm brass offsets is pretty hard to beat for slate (and trad in general). The superlights especially are tops because of their shape and their strength due to the single thick wire (2kN for the smallest size/ 4kN for the others) compared with 1kN for some micro versions of standard wire shapes.

Small cams - BD C3's are the shit. Haven't tried wild country zero's.
Can't think of a time I've relied on a micro cam on slate though, wouldn't really trust it like a wire because they slip a bit on slate.

[Paul B]

in the quarries that are hard to find without local knowledge.

Hit me with the knowledge... I've checked out the wiki and explored the tiers above looning last weekend. Keen for other sport rec's further afield, the wiki seems to rely on you having the old slate guide as well, is this easy enough/cheap enough to find?

[205Chris]

There's some info on the other channel about a recent rockfall affecting access to Vivian quarry that might be worth a read for anyone heading to the slate.

Link to BMC info here

[Paul B]

Cheers for the link...

anyone got any strong opinions re: Black diamond stoppers, checked out the IMP's, Offsets and Peanuts tonight (Astro-nuts were MIA) and left feeling very confused...

[petejh]

Hit me with the knowledge...

G'Day Arete - go to looning the tube level but turn right in front of the little tunnel (where 'The Burning' is) and walk up the steps. The first level you come to is the G'Day arete level - there's a big old building here (the caban). G'Day Arete and other good routes 6b - 7a+ are pretty obvious.

Great Bores of Today, and The Wow Wow - standing at the base of  Looning the Tube, the routes are down in the bottom of the hole behind you, on the back wall which faces towards the top of the mountain. Great bores is in between the two tunnel exits and about the same height as the left-hand tunnel, Wow Wow is down and right of the right-hand tunnel which exits halfway up the face.  To access - walk back down one level from looning the tube level and turn left, go into the righthand tunnel and take the righthand fork. Headtorch useful but not essential. At the tunnel exit turn left and descend scree to the routes.

Patellectomy (and dyke rider etc etc) - From Bus Stop parking, walk along the main track to the dip where Dali's Hole is on your left. Hop over the 5 bar gate on your right and follow the level leftwards into a cul-de-sac. Patellectomy ascends the iron bars on the right wall. Various other worthy sport routes on same wall. Nice slabby 6a/b on left wall. Bring your axes and poons there's a great dry -tooling route on the back wall.

Jack of Shadows - Go to Bela Lugosi and Jack of Shadows is the right-hand line of bolts (I think!) on the steep blocky wall on your right (the left arete of Collussus Wall). Also the two 'sport' routes just to the right of Bela Lugosi are worth doing but they've been bolted very shitly - if that's a word.

Where are my Sensible shoes/Cig Arete etc  - From Rainbow Slab carry on along the same level to the short walls beyond.

Also - here's a photo topo of all the levels on the left side of Australia  (courtesy of Chris Davies, from the wiki) - http://image.wetpaint.com/image/1/6pB5ZWaAZCcX4juFYZJjjw1113748     
Off the Beaten Track is supposed to be a '3 star superclassic', haven't done it.

[Paul B]

thanks!

[Hoseyb]

Hi Paul
Loads of gems off the beaten track so to speak most of them could be found via banging your head against the wiki or hassling a local, otherwise ask pantontino very nicely and he may forward a relevent draft..

the area/levels around g'day arete have a number of pretty good sport routes that you can try without requiring too much extra knowledge. Likewise the sort routes on the rainbow walls have very few crap ones amoungst them, and if they look very hard then they probably are.

If its adventure you want, there's a route fully described on the wiki called "giddy variations on a theme E2 5b" and its on the llanberis side. very worthwhile seeking out.

theres something for every style of devience, name your poison and I'll try to reccomend something

Hosey
(Choss, adventure and Offwidths)

[Houdini]

Most trad slate is awful, introductions to poor gear & rock not necessary.



Strong, sporty lad like yourself would do well to investigate:

Spong (is good for you)
Il Migliore Fabbro
The Dark Half
Cwms The Dogfish
Manic Strain

Great rock w/ new bolts, 7c+ - 8a.

If you want trad, try:

Flashdance/Belldance
Poetry Pink & Splitstream (as nice mixed gear routes)
Waves of Inspiration
Mau Mau 
Young & Easy Under The Apple Boughs

E4 5 ish. 



You'll need a different partner for this, I understand.