[Tony]

I'm not generally a fan of the "Thought for the day" BBC R4 item -but I liked it today. It was about someone bringing professionalisation to quizzing https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0hpk11m

I don't think that link is live yet, it's also at 1:47:40 at https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001y26f

I don't think it's about professionalism in quizzing at all - that's just the parable; to my mind it's about the difference between knowledge/data and wisdom. Anyway...

Climbing is at the amateurism stage; sponsorship and patreon accounts are not professionalism. My intuition is that these things ("on average") likely benefit Trustafarians more than equal meritorious individuals from socially deprived backgrounds. (NB: This is a general point and not directed to any specific case.)

[Tony]

Like many I’m intrigued by the ‘non news’ or the lack of news of a ‘significant ascent’. However aside from the news or non news aspects, what interests me is how Aiden (and others) are grappling with how their bouldering ‘experiences)’ are represented. 

Firstly, well done on your PhD. A milestone achievement, for sure. [EDIT: Oops, I see this was nearly a decade ago. Still, thanks for posting/writing something different.]

I think using the word grapple is rather making a lot of assumptions. Since one cannot impart one's own experience directly to another, one can choose to use words (or draw or mime or dance) to relate such experiences to others. This is not simply summarising but, still, there is nothing new in this. People have been telling (in different forms) each other stories for millennia. Some are better than others at relating the essence of an experience effectively and, of course, different audiences will value different things. Still, ultimately, there is no need to publish anything at all. That is a choice.

As an aside, I always preferred Descartes's maths to his philosophy.

[Wellsy]

Like many I’m intrigued by the ‘non news’ or the lack of news of a ‘significant ascent’. However aside from the news or non news aspects, what interests me is how Aiden (and others) are grappling with how their bouldering ‘experiences)’ are represented. 

I wrote an article for UKC a few months ago….”Today’s Climbing Media Output Rarely Conveys Depth of Experience” and a PhD ‘THE PROBLEM OF REPRESENTING THE ‘BOULDERING' EXPERIENCE AS IT EXCEEDS CONVENTIONAL FORMS OF REPRESENTATION.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/features/todays_climbing_media_output_rarely_conveys_depth_of_experience-15372

https://independent.academia.edu/AndyWhall?utm_content=link1&utm_campaign=articles_id_15372&utm_medium=articles_post&utm_source=ukclimbing

I remember that article and I can't say I agreed with it. I think mostly it is an objection to a perceived aesthetic.

[Wellsy]

In answer to your ding, Tony, which was a bit of a weird way to post a reply but anyway, the article to me constructs an artificial tension between indoor and outdoor climbing, and the experience of climbing and the media depiction of it, and then attempts to transform this into a philosophically rigorous criticism of people posting videos of comp problems on Instagram, whereas it is in fact a reactionary dislike to the perceived aesthetics of modern climbing media

[Andy W]

In answer to your ding, Tony, which was a bit of a weird way to post a reply but anyway, the article to me constructs an artificial tension between indoor and outdoor climbing, and the experience of climbing and the media depiction of it, and then attempts to transform this into a philosophically rigorous criticism of people posting videos of comp problems on Instagram, whereas it is in fact a reactionary dislike to the perceived aesthetics of modern climbing media

I'm glad you cleared that up for me.

[Wellsy]

You're welcome

[andy moles]

Ach bin the philosophy Tony, just say what you really think: he's a media hoor!

 

[Tony]

Prostitution is an ancient profession  entered into for a variety of reasons. However, one imagines seldom as voluntarily as climbing sponsorship.

I don’t do philosophy; I do opinion.

[jwi]

I'm not generally a fan of the "Thought for the day" BBC R4 item -but I liked it today. It was about someone bringing professionalisation to quizzing https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0hpk11m

I don't think that link is live yet, it's also at 1:47:40 at https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001y26f

I don't think it's about professionalism in quizzing at all - that's just the parable; to my mind it's about the difference between knowledge/data and wisdom. Anyway...

Climbing is at the amateurism stage; sponsorship and patreon accounts are not professionalism. My intuition is that these things ("on average") likely benefit Trustafarians more than equal meritorious individuals from socially deprived backgrounds. (NB: This is a general point and not directed to any specific case.)

I am pretty sure that there is exactly one professional sport climber in France. My definition of professional is someone who earns a living wage from climbing. There are many professional mountain guides, of course, but as for sport climbing, only Mr. Bouin can do that for a living; and he does spend some time on media production as well. Ms Chanourdi has joined the army, Mr Mawem runs a gym, and the other competitors are mostly "students"

[peterbeal]

I'm not generally a fan of the "Thought for the day" BBC R4 item -but I liked it today. It was about someone bringing professionalisation to quizzing https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0hpk11m

I don't think that link is live yet, it's also at 1:47:40 at https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001y26f

I don't think it's about professionalism in quizzing at all - that's just the parable; to my mind it's about the difference between knowledge/data and wisdom. Anyway...

Climbing is at the amateurism stage; sponsorship and patreon accounts are not professionalism. My intuition is that these things ("on average") likely benefit Trustafarians more than equal meritorious individuals from socially deprived backgrounds. (NB: This is a general point and not directed to any specific case.)

I am pretty sure that there is exactly one professional sport climber in France. My definition of professional is someone who earns a living wage from climbing. There are many professional mountain guides, of course, but as for sport climbing, only Mr. Bouin can do that for a living; and he does spend some time on media production as well. Ms Chanourdi has joined the army, Mr Mawem runs a gym, and the other competitors are mostly "students"

Looking forward one day to some transparency on actual revenue earned by "professional climbers" but not holding my breath. Here in Boulder, a city with one of the highest costs of living in the US, there are many "professional climbers" enjoying a standard of living well in excess of any income they could likely ever garner from climbing. Very occasionally someone is outed as a trustfunder but otherwise the code of silence is maintained. Vulgar of me to ask, I know, but most actual professionals, especially in real professional sports such as football etc, are very forthcoming about their income. Meanwhile in climbing, or so I have heard, sponsored climbers are specifically forbidden to discuss their compensation.

[gme]

Why does it matter?

[lukeyboy]

... but this is UKB so I’m sure it will no doubt descend into 15 page debate about whether paying towards two climbers making an interesting podcast every week is ethical or something

Long overdue thread split?

[Wood FT]

I'm not generally a fan of the "Thought for the day" BBC R4 item -but I liked it today. It was about someone bringing professionalisation to quizzing https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0hpk11m

I don't think that link is live yet, it's also at 1:47:40 at https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001y26f

I don't think it's about professionalism in quizzing at all - that's just the parable; to my mind it's about the difference between knowledge/data and wisdom. Anyway...

Climbing is at the amateurism stage; sponsorship and patreon accounts are not professionalism. My intuition is that these things ("on average") likely benefit Trustafarians more than equal meritorious individuals from socially deprived backgrounds. (NB: This is a general point and not directed to any specific case.)

I am pretty sure that there is exactly one professional sport climber in France. My definition of professional is someone who earns a living wage from climbing. There are many professional mountain guides, of course, but as for sport climbing, only Mr. Bouin can do that for a living; and he does spend some time on media production as well. Ms Chanourdi has joined the army, Mr Mawem runs a gym, and the other competitors are mostly "students"

Looking forward one day to some transparency on actual revenue earned by "professional climbers" but not holding my breath. Here in Boulder, a city with one of the highest costs of living in the US, there are many "professional climbers" enjoying a standard of living well in excess of any income they could likely ever garner from climbing. Very occasionally someone is outed as a trustfunder but otherwise the code of silence is maintained. Vulgar of me to ask, I know, but most actual professionals, especially in real professional sports such as football etc, are very forthcoming about their income. Meanwhile in climbing, or so I have heard, sponsored climbers are specifically forbidden to discuss their compensation.

This! 

[Bradders]

Jonas Winter has done Imothep du Sol, suggesting it felt harder than The Big Island but sticking with 8B+. Probably third ascent after Camille Coudert and Nico Pelorson. Of interest as the full sitter is likely one of the hardest problems in the world; supposedly involves a single 8B+ move, a couple of easier moves and then up "du Sol".

https://www.instagram.com/p/C5kbxE4tvdR/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

[James Malloch]

https://www.8a.nu/news/blind-climber-nicolas-moineau-46-redpoints-8a

This blew my mind!

[jwi]

Ahem! (Old news, weirdly picked up by eight a point nü now)

Nicolas Moineau, a blind climber from Cahors, has repeated Los tacos de los dos rigolos, 8a, in Saint-Géry. Wild. I found this route pretty solid for 8a, and quite complex. Lots of tiny feet in the first part and some big committing moves on top.


https://fanatic-climbing.com/nicolas-moineau-non-voyant-arrive-dans-le-8eme-degre-nicolas-moineau-sightless-opens-his-8th-degree-counter/

[James Malloch]

Ahem! (Old news, weirdly picked up by eight a point nü now)

Nicolas Moineau, a blind climber from Cahors, has repeated Los tacos de los dos rigolos, 8a, in Saint-Géry. Wild. I found this route pretty solid for 8a, and quite complex. Lots of tiny feet in the first part and some big committing moves on top.


https://fanatic-climbing.com/nicolas-moineau-non-voyant-arrive-dans-le-8eme-degre-nicolas-moineau-sightless-opens-his-8th-degree-counter/

Ah yes, missed that. What a brilliant achievement!

[jwi]

Ahem! (Old news, weirdly picked up by eight a point nü now)

Nicolas Moineau, a blind climber from Cahors, has repeated Los tacos de los dos rigolos, 8a, in Saint-Géry. Wild. I found this route pretty solid for 8a, and quite complex. Lots of tiny feet in the first part and some big committing moves on top.


https://fanatic-climbing.com/nicolas-moineau-non-voyant-arrive-dans-le-8eme-degre-nicolas-moineau-sightless-opens-his-8th-degree-counter/

Ah yes, missed that. What a brilliant achievement!

As I said at the time, I found this completely wild! Even with an enormous margin on the moves it's bonkers to the first crux without looking at the thing your swapping the feets on. Also just short of the anchor there are some really big slappy move at the end of a long sequence of pumpy climbing. I saw that Nicloas managed to lock off and do it semi-static. Not possible for me. Really a full value 8a, no bull.

[remus]

Michaela Kiersch has repeated Victimes Perfecta 9a+ at Margalef in Spain, a line linking Víctimes del Passat and Gancho Perfecto.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C5n94RQLAi3/?img_index=1

[Teaboy]

Also a film about it which I’ve not watched yet but totally psyched for:
https://youtu.be/NJh4kL-QNk4?si=3cO-NApsmBcA1zEK

How many 9a and upwards has she down now?
EDIT: Just realised the film is of Era Vella not this route but I’m still pretty psyched!

[remus]

How many 9a and upwards has she down now?

La Rambla, Victima Perfecta, Dreamcatcher, Era Vella and Victimes del Futur by my count.

https://climbing-history.org/climber/1036/michaela-kiersch

[Wood FT]

Hell of a pyramid