[Nibile]

I didn't take it for myself: I do have my own board and my will power is infinite. I just found it very presumptuous and disrespectful for those - and I bet they're the vast majority - who can't simply move house or build a wall or set their lifestyle around climbing regardless everything else.

[Palomides]

He's right about the biscuits though.

[shark]

For your own good ignore his post

" A 2010 study by Stanford University researcher Veronika Job, PhD,and colleagues found that individuals who thought willpower was a limited resource were subject to having their willpower depleted. But people who did not believe willpower was easily exhaustible did not show signs of depletion after exerting self-control"

www.apa.org/helpce.../willpower-limited-resource.pdf

[lmarenzi]

Nibs

I didn't take it for myself: I do have my own board and my will power is infinite. I just found it very presumptuous and disrespectful for those - and I bet they're the vast majority - who can't simply move house or build a wall or set their lifestyle around climbing regardless everything else.

If I am respectful of the limitations of my situation how can I change them? Because everything can be changed, right?

[Teaboy]

I normally find Dave MacLeod's entries just plain boring, but this one really pissed me off.
It's so narrowminded that I found it offensive.
How one who's a professional could be so simplistic is beyond my comprehension.

Choose house and work accordingly to where you train???
Don't have an own wall, just build one???

What?
Just finding the time to type that not everyone has the chance to change house at will to gain a grade, or to even simply find the space to build a woodie, seems a waste of my time.
This was the last time I read one of his blogs.

To be fair, for me, the whole 'no biscuits' thing was more unrealistic

[webbo]

I find the will power thing works both ways as to night I had to will power not to train and head straight for the Pastis on getting in from work.

[abarro81]

I know lots of people who've chosen house locations (both in terms of which city (or even country) and where to live within a city) on the basis of fitting in with where rock climbing is or where training facilities are, and lots of people who've built boards. I don't think either of these things are particularly unreasonable things to suggest as being good ideas for people who like climbing and want to get good at climbing. DM's approach/view generally seems to be along the lines of 'if you want to be good then prioritize climbing', and this just fits with that.

[Nibile]

1) It's not about getting good at climbing and going along with your motivation. It's about finding motivation when you don't have it.
2) It's not about those who can, it's about the vast majority that can not follow that advice.

Anyway, I had written a long reply that got lost when my iPad battery died. Maybe tomorrow I'll find the motivation to type it again.

[shark]

Maybe tomorrow I'll find the motivation to type it again.

You can do it Nibs  - I believe in you

[petejh]

I'd be interested to read it Nibs because I can't see too much 'wrong' with DM's blog post. Although I think I get what you're getting at - I think you're saying that those who climb at a high standard or are very clued-up about their training don't really 'need' to read dave mac's stuff or stand to gain as much insight from it as more punterish climbers (although there must be plenty of nuggets in his writing for wads too). But more punterish climbers are unlikely to be either willing or able to do the sort of things DM prescribes because they're the sort of things only high standard climbers would bother doing. Chicken and egg?...

[abarro81]

1) It's not about getting good at climbing and going along with your motivation. It's about finding motivation when you don't have it.

The post is, in my opinion, about getting good at climbing and going along with an overall motivation, it's just about when that overall motivation gets sidetracked in the short term because you used up the days willpower on doing work etc. I know a few people who this happens to regularly. It happens to me all the time with going to bed too late - I'll come home from the wall thinking "I'll be dedicated andgo to bed really early to recover and be strong as fuck", then I end up going to bed 2 hours later than I should have, having watched shit tv or gone on ukb. The key strategy for me would be to break my laptop. I'm not about to smash it with a hammer, but I wouldn't object to a blog that suggested that it would be a good idea. (Other ideas on a postcard please)

[petejh]

The key strategy for me would be to break my laptop. I'm not about to smash it with a hammer, but I wouldn't object to a blog that suggested that it would be a good idea. (Other ideas on a postcard please)

Frying pan?

[Muenchener]

I'll come home from the wall thinking "I'll be dedicated and go to bed really early to recover and be strong as fuck", then I end up going to bed 2 hours later than I should have, having watched shit tv or gone on ukb. The key strategy for me would be to break my laptop.

This is a big nemesis for me (apart from the "strong as fuck" bit)

[Muenchener]

My main reaction to that blog post was to go to the kitchen and look for a biscuit. Clearly I am a lost cause ...

My kitchen is distressingly biscuit-free at the moment too; I lack the willpower to go shopping.

[chris j]

1) It's not about getting good at climbing and going along with your motivation. It's about finding motivation when you don't have it.

Only a slight difference in emphasis but I read it as making the path as easy as you can to help when you don't have motivation.

2) It's not about those who can, it's about the vast majority that can not follow that advice.

It's consistent with his book though, where he presents the same sort of extreme options (no biscuits!) if you want to improve your climbing. As he says there it depends how high you actually prioritize improving your climbing. Some people will be prepared to make the sacrifices (viz Kelvin, off to Spain next year and csl(?), just quit his job to go live in the mountains via 6 months in Spain) On the other hand, despite all my talk about wanting to climb better I obviously don't really want to that badly given it's taken 7 years to get round to building a board in the garage...

[Nibile]

I knew I shouldn't post in the beginning... anyway, too late now.

First of all, this is just to explain my point of view, nothing more.
That kind of advice is completely out of this world for 99% of those how ask for advice.
People struggling with motivation, will likely struggle even more if the solution you give them is to move house closer to a wall, or to build a woodie, because for the vast majority of people, these are not valid options.
Those who can, can move to Spain, quit their jobs, etc. It's not about this.
This is about a normal person, with - maybe - a job or a family or both, who's looking for advice and gets this answer. Change house. Build a board.
Not to mention the fact that these over rationals solutions, are absolutely useless: there are more pristine, unused cellar boards and climbing wall memberships in this world, than fishes in the sea.
Some professional climbers and coaches, tend to apply what they do in their specific fields, to others. Well, it doesn't work. What they do, the sacrifices they do, they do them because it's their fucking job, just like every one else for their specific work.
But for the vast majority of people who refer to a professional trainer, climbing is not a profession, so giving climbing the first place on the pecking order of your life, simply isn't going to happen. It's not real.
When I was working in Rome, I actually moved house to be closer to work. It was my job and that was worth. Same thing. But I couldn't move closer to work and to the wall at the same time. And I could not have a board.
If I refer to a professional for advice on motivation - a thing that is never ever going to happen - I don't want to hear such simplistic, unreal advice: Want to climb hard? Build your life around climbing. Move house. Sell the kids and build a board in their room.
Well, thank fuck for nothing.
When a man comes to the law firm I work for, to have advice on his divorce, we don't simply say: Give your ex the house, the kids, the car and all the money she wants, because it's the simplest way to deal with it.
We've got to think to something that is actually doable.
It's the way of thinking that in my opinion isn't going to work: the sacrifices that a professional is prepared to make for their profession, aren't often possible for not professionals.
Prioritize your climbing is a very very very cheap advice.
Like, prioritize it over your job? Over your family? Good call.
There are people who can give climbing the first place, but they're a rarity; the few ones that come to my mind, are either alone, or rich, or both.
If you're alone you can do whatever you want: you can quit your job, live in a van, etc. etc.
But these people don't need advice on how to get motivation.
Those who look for advice are those who can't afford to quit their jobs and move to Spain, or to simply get back home late from the wall.
So, maybe, putting a pull up bar at work could be a simpler start, before moving the house? Or putting a Beastmaker close to the kitchen or living room is easier than finding the space to build a woodie? Or talking your wife into doing some little training together, maybe yoga for her and fingerboarding for you?
Also: that post show a strong dichotomy between rational and irrational mind. MacLeod gives priority to the rational part. I give priority to the irrational mind. If I lack motivation - again, that is something that will never ever happen - it means that something deep is "wrong". Somehow the equilibrium between rational and irrational is lost. The solution must come from inside, not from rational thinking. It does not work. Not on the long run, at least.
In day to day life we are constantly dealing with needs, desires, obligations, etc. and we can't simply switch something on or off at will, we have to keep everything together and to exploit our possibilities at best in each field.
For years I've been having most afternoons free from work, at least from 4 pm onwards.
I could train at will.
Well, now I'm working double the hours, even weekends, and I am more motivated than ever. I am stronger and my mind works like a rocket, something that I had lost, before.
We function at best as a whole, and giving priority to partial aspects of our lives, on a rational basis to obtain specific results, can be done for very short periods, but is going to get you in big troubles on the long run. I speak from my experience.

Now I'd better stop before the battery dies...
I hope that I made myself clear. Again, just my thoughts and personal feelings about that entry.

[ghisino]

Sell the kids and build a board in their room.

i will suggest this to all climbing fathers i know. 

(except one. his son -2 years old- does pullups on the table's edge, keeps asking them about going to "scalade" and looks at chicks pics on grimper, while dad reads the article.
In this particular case i'll suggest them to progressively quit climbing and accumulate enough money to buy the kid a van on his 18th bday)

[kelvin]

So, maybe, putting a pull up bar at work could be a simpler start, before moving the house? Or putting a Beastmaker close to the kitchen or living room is easier than finding the space to build a woodie? Or talking your wife into doing some little training together, maybe yoga for her and fingerboarding for you?

I dunno Nibs, I am that punter you're on about. I may be single, kids grown up but I'm self employed. Last week was over 70hrs and it'll be thirteen days in a row of slaving for the coin before I get a day off.

You've hit the nail on the head there - it's finding the path of least resistance to get to the place you want to be. In your case, it's to be strong and you've built a wall to make that easier. All the things you've suggested make total sense but so do Dave Mac's. No biscuits (read crisps for me) in the cupboard is pretty easy for anyone to follow, even if you have kids, it might even do them some good and it helps me to be less fatter than the fat man I am.

Back to me. I can't afford to clear off to Spain, not really, it makes no sense at all. !8 months out, buy a van, spending money... this trip is basically gonna cost me £40,000 or so. That's how much better off I'd be if I carry on working, the lost wages add up and people forget that. But Nibs, I am that punter who reads Dave Mac's blog, watches the vids you post and along with many others, you've both play a part in the punter I am and the climber I want to be. It's not about sacrifices, it's about choice, what we choose to do and that changes throughout life. Ebbs and flows, sometimes we swim against the tide and sometimes we ride it. I've decided to change the ocean I swim in I guess.

You and Dave Mac are both right - I think so anyway.

[shark]

Prioritize your climbing is a very very very cheap advice.
Like, prioritize it over your job? Over your family? Good call.
There are people who can give climbing the first place, but they're a rarity; the few ones that come to my mind, are either alone, or rich, or both.

Like you say it is a trade-off. But I think its fair to say we all make illogically bad choices in how we use our time and have more potential control over this than we think. There are people who do ridiculously long commutes or bend over backwards for their kids activities unnecessarily when changing job or doing taking turns with other parents are options. In business there is the idea of a balanced scorecard. Its no good if your product quality is 100% if your deliveries are late and your costs are too high - you have to score high in all areas (not necessarily 100%) to be successful. There is a concept called Lean which is applied in business which is to get rid of waste (muda) in all its forms - waste of materials, labour, machine time, process bottlenecks etc. We all have waste in our lives which we can get rid of to free up our time, give us more energy and enable us to be better climbers which is what Dave Mac is driving it so you can be 90% as good a parent/partner, 90% as good an employee and 90% as good a climber (or whatever else is important to you) as you are capable of potentially being. But it needs working at - continuously.     

[Nibile]

Shark,
I think that yours is a very very edulcorated and flattering view of his message, that to me was very very plain and involved nothing of that "balancing" efforts. To the contrary indeed.
Maybe it's just me.
 

[tim palmer]

Surely this post simply reflects DM's point of view, I thought the advice was terribly generic and blindingly obvious to anyone with an ounce of native wit, but he wrote with a large audience in mind. he has got good by prioritising climbing above all else and he is a full-time climber.  He doesn't have (or has very limited) experience of fitting in climbing around life, so it is maybe unfair to expect any great insights for your (?above) average part timer. 
Is it a possibility that Nibile is in fact far more effective at training (and is simply time poor) and better positioned to be giving advice to someone with a full-time job than DM?

[rginns]

I find the will power thing works both ways as to night I had to will power not to train and head straight for the Pastis on getting in from work.

Pastis or pasties?
I can't possibly condone the former, but encourage any pastry encased meet product, for sure.

[SA Chris]

My main reaction to that blog post was to go to the kitchen and look for a biscuit. Clearly I am a lost cause ...

Biscuits are my healthy snack. Deep fried mars bars are the unhealthy alternative.

[webbo]

I find the will power thing works both ways as to night I had to will power not to train and head straight for the Pastis on getting in from work.

Pastis or pasties?
I can't possibly condone the former, but encourage any pastry encased meet product, for sure.

Pernod or some other cheap French supermarket version mixed with caffeine free diet coke so as to make it healthy.

[rginns]

I find the will power thing works both ways as to night I had to will power not to train and head straight for the Pastis on getting in from work.

Pastis or pasties?
I can't possibly condone the former, but encourage any pastry encased meet product, for sure.

Pernod or some other cheap French supermarket version mixed with caffeine free diet coke so as to make it healthy.

Fine.
Acceptable if you're mixing the Pastis with water, as it means you're keeping hydrated.