[a dense loner]

What has my grading of problems got to do with Andy's ability to grade his problem?

As to the answer to your question I can think of a few possible explanations:
1) They were dirty when I first did them and have cleaned up significantly, I'd still say they are more 7A+ than 7A having gone back and repeated then, but that's splitting hairs.
2) You and all your friends are hero's and beasts, me and all my friends are shit and weak.
3) I just got it wrong
You take your pick, I don't much care.

I guess the advantage of only ever training is you never have to offer a grade for anything, just bitch and moan at other peoples attempts. How cool are you...

As you say, grades eh!

u said that uptown has more than enough problems under his belt to be able to comfortably grade at that level. uve done a few 7c's so should be able to grade at that. that was my point.
1. they were dirty when u did them? what? ure seriously saying u graded something 7c cos u couldn't be bothered to clean it?
2. we're not hero's n beasts they just happen to be able to climb 7a
3. u did get it wrong
only ever training? what? i've trained for the last 3 yrs, with any aims for training, out of the last 15
i don't bitch n moan at other peoples attempts, if someone is an idiot or gets something ridiculously wrong i'll say so. cool i don't think i'm cool at all.
ps loads of people ave noticed u talk about niks wall or doug or denshaw all the time without ever directly referring to them. nowt like ones own trumpet

[Fiend]

Don't think Nik mentions Doug that much except recently in comparison to a route he rightfully (i.e. it's useful to know if these things are in a climbable state) reported in the "routes cleaned" thread.

Nik's Wall is now an urban legend, besides isn't he banned from mentioning it?? The effort it took for Strong Girl's Strong Grit team to get That's My Lot showed these things are worthy of attention, right??

Though the fat weak punter does need to do more one armers evidently. Weakness might be acceptible for pissy bold slab climbing but it's not going to get you strong is it....

[Offwidth]

Small world... told just last night downt pub that 7c Albarracin traverse was a mite overgraded from people on it a few weeks back.

[Paul B]

Small world... told just last night downt pub that 7c Albarracin traverse was a mite overgraded from people on it a few weeks back.

I keep banging the same old drum but Klem's 8a traverse is the same as Jerry's traverse at cratcliffe, but with footholds and the top cut off so you can fully crimp. Now there is a dyno at the end but it ain't that hard.

[GCW]

Dense, I'm not sure what you are meaning.

OK, Nik graded a couple of things rather inaccurately.  Therefore UpTown must grade inaccurately?  If that's your assumption I'm not sure I agree with you.

I don't remember Nik going on about Doug, except a brief mention in comparison to other things- it's the second E8 he's onsight/flash soloed.  Nik's Wall and (I presume you mean) Denham, are 2 8a walls that are unrepeated (or at least until recently, allegedly).  His mentioning these to try to get them repeated may irritateyou but I'd put it down to (not so) youthful enthusiasm.

The fact you feel Nik can't grade things, as he's been 4 grades out, makes it sound like you think he is in some way dishonest about them, or that you don't believe his claims.  Especially in combination with your comments on his drum banging. 

[Ru]

I think Dense's point, although crudely put, was that a person having experience of a given grade was not a guarantor of accuracy when that person grades something of their own. His example, as I read it, was that Nik has a lot of experience around 7c, and yet  Nik misgraded a couple of problems at that level by a few notches and therefore this was a counter example to Nik's own point. He was then robust in his defence of this point, without actually making it clear what his point was.

Now lets all get along.

[uptown]

another brads arete, i certainly will check it out.. but where? iv been there recently (before i saw you) and saw a sharp arete ss with moss on top right and up from your problem...is it that one? mind you it dosent look that hard.

I think that's an old 7a which is returning to nature Brad. The one I mean is the obvious hard and highball blunt arete between Brutal arete and Stanton warriors. I presume a beastmaker scrubbed it, I'd like to think it's a ground-up challenge. The line to the left of Brutal also looks good, though the ability to dismount with a certain flair looks to be necessary. A sit-start to the central flaky groove on my trav is also good, finishing at 'the hold to nowhere'.

[Fiend]

He was then robust in his defence of this point, without actually making it clear what his point was.

An admirable skill!

[brad]

I think that's an old 7a which is returning to nature Brad. The one I mean is the obvious hard and highball blunt arete between Brutal arete and Stanton warriors. I presume a beastmaker scrubbed it, I'd like to think it's a ground-up challenge. The line to the left of Brutal also looks good, though the ability to dismount with a certain flair looks to be necessary. A sit-start to the central flaky groove on my trav is also good, finishing at 'the hold to nowhere'.
[/quote]

shh, that line up the left of brutal is one of my secret problems im working!, i had a play on it 2 months ago but needed better shoes, as soon as your on its a instant highball
i looked at your problem and it looks good indeed and whilst i was there i looked at the arete your on about, looks tough and slopey finish, i looked at the left side not the right arete next to sw

[a dense loner]

thank you ru, it wasn't that hard to work out what i was talking about. gcw u got the wrong end of the stick totally. however people that don't think nik goes on about one of his own unrepeated probs or onsighting E8's in one out of every 30 posts ave no eyes

off to top up my tan now with my hair billowing in the wind whilst campussing on mono's with a 7 stone climber hanging off me, same time as usual paul?

[GCW]

Well that's that cleared up, which is why I asked you to clarify to avoid any wrong end of sticking.
I don't think it's a case of having no eyes, just a case of becoming immune maybe?

[Fiend]

WHAT hair billowing in the wind, baldy?

[a dense loner]

 

[Paul B]

off to top up my tan now with my hair billowing in the wind whilst campussing on mono's with a 7 stone climber hanging off me, same time as usual paul?

NO! You gon top this time you lazy old git.

[a dense loner]

i don't want to break u paul

[nik at work]

I think Dense's point, although crudely put, was that a person having experience of a given grade was not a guarantor of accuracy when that person grades something of their own.

A point which I would completely agree with, and I have not said anything counter to this.

His example, as I read it, was that Nik has a lot of experience around 7c, and yet  Nik misgraded a couple of problems at that level by a few notches and therefore this was a counter example to Nik's own point.

A perfectly valid example, and again one that I agree with. I agreed with the downgrades when suggested in the original thread about these problems. My point was not that Uptown has experience of this grade therefore his grading will be accurate, rather that Uptown will draw on his ongoing experience of different problems and there grades to suggest a grade for this problem (in common with everybody else who ever tries to grade a problem I imagine). He, and anybody else, could still offer a grade that is subsequently adjusted by concensus view. I was merely suggesting that maybe he was being flippant when  he suggested that his grading was based on a video clip of a problem he knows nothing about, and rather that his grade would be based on experience.

When I wrote:

I'm pretty sure that Uptown has more than enough experience to provide a grade for a problem at this level

I was not trying to imply that Uptowns grading will be absolutely accurate and beyond debate, simply that he has a relevant frame of reference from which to arrive at this grade. It could still prove to be inaccurate after some repeats.

As a concensus view of the grade of this problems emerges it may become apparent that the grade of 8A was wrong, time will tell. However if the grade does change it doesn't mean Uptown was "wrong" for initially suggesting 8A, he was just providing an honest appraisal of how hard he felt the problem was. A point of pedantry perhaps but important I think. Obviously all this may be completely academic and this problem is a classic 8A. I have no idea as I've never tried it.

Dense I owe you an apology. This:

I guess the advantage of only ever training is you never have to offer a grade for anything, just bitch and moan at other peoples attempts. How cool are you...

Was meant as a jokey reference to the on-going suggestion that you only ever train and never actually climb that has been alluded to by several members of this forum on several threads. However on re-reading I realise it come across as quite snipey. That wasn't how it was intended. I have fallen into the classic forum pitfall of assuming that we in some way know one another and that you will "get" what I mean. Obviously the truth is we don't know each other at all (although I think we did meet briefly at the Works last year?? Not that we actually spoke to each other). Anyway  I'm sorry.

As to your other point of criticism I won't dwell on it other than to say your comments have been duly noted.

[a dense loner]

apology accepted nik 

[SA Chris]

And we now await dense's apology..... (stirring)

[uptown]

And we now await dense's apology..... (stirring)

And for someone to repeat the traverse, down-grade it and declare it shit. 

[SA Chris]

Well I think that's more likely to happen.

[Jaspersharpe]

Are you trying to say that Uptown's a shit, overgrading twat Chris cos that's the way I'm reading that post?

[SA Chris]

Yes, I'm saying he's  a shit overgrading twat, and by association (as you have mentioned him in your post) you are a shit twat too. I would say you were an overgrader too, but as I have never seen you grade anything I can't accuse you of that.

[Jaspersharpe]

Thought as much.

[uptown]

 
I am a shit overgrading twat,
Jasper is a shit undergrading twat,
which leaves you as the shit grading twat Chris.
Or something.
Anyhow - as I meant: peeps don't shuffle (it's too lowly!) so no twat will be grading this shit -
Hence my shitly overgraded shit. Twat.
 

[a dense loner]

what am i supposed to apologise for? all i wrote was right, as always (nearly)

nearly that time of yr jasper, be round yours shortly wi paperwork n we can downgrade andys pieces of shit shuffles, actually i don't care about the grades of shuffles like the visionary godoffe said "traverse grades are meaningless"