[T_B]

funny how having kids means you no longer have time for capital letters

[Tommy]

I always enjoy this writing. Keep it up!

More frustrated rantings about being a parent please. It'll make me feel better.

[SA Chris]

+ another 1

So now thats that, the end of the brown rocks (???). Pretty psyched for bolt clipping.

Has the lime been called then?

[comPiler]

The curse of being too into climbing
24 May 2013, 8:51 am



All these people desperate to work in climbing or do something to do with it for a job - don't you get bored? doesn't everything always being about climbing all of the time get to you? It's nice not to have all your eggs in one basket. When you see young punks strutting around the climbing wall, 'cock o' the wave', and they aspire to being outdoor pursuits instructors - i always think - what's your exit plan though? i mean, do you still see yourself doing it at 50? I don't know, I obviously haven't and don't do that job, so maybe its great and really fulfilling, but its not something that immeadiately appears to tick all the boxes.

Then there's roped access. The preserve of the hard core rock jock, but again - do you really think after a 12 hr day on the ropes you're gonna be bustin out the big moves on the wave? Its gruelling dirty work, often with a few hours drive at either end of a day. Malcy famously would still train after the day described above, but this is Malcy we are talking about - one of the most driven dedicated human beings, with a proven record in hard work. Certainly, rope access isn't for everyone.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do these things, or that they are worthless careers, just that you should go into them with your eyes open. Be realistic about your prospects and what will make you happy. You're a long time at work, so doing something you hate just because its not office based is a mistake. Whats so bad about the office anyway - at the end of the day, at least you're gagging for action! Of course, most of the time people slip into these things because they think that they will make them happy which may or may not be true.

I have created a chart of climbing occupations ordered by desperateness :

• Roped access worker L1 - the lowest of the low, grinding out the hours, being the lackey for the L2 and L3 workers. Considered by everyone to be a goon.
• Climbing Wall reception slave - face of the climbing walls, to the punter you are cool because you made the choice to work in climbing, but you're bored.
• Climbing Instructor - see above. You stand by miserably as legion after legion of bored children come through having to feign enthusiasm
• Gear shop worker - you still have to talk to punters. Its hard work. You have to talk to punters again. limited scope for drinking tea.
• Roped access worker L2 - still hard dirty work, but with measurably more standing around and drinking tea.
• Climbing wall cafe slave - in my day this meant covered in chip fat, hung over, in a hot broom cupboard and able to see your mates having fun through the window, but nowadays it means baking nice cakes and looking at the internet, hence its position in this list.
• Climbing wall manager - You get to do all the hard work the wall owners dont want to do, but there are a lot of perks. Plus, you get to boss 2, 3 and 6 (and possibly 4) about. Long hours, and do you really want to stay at work after youve finished doing rock climbs?
• Route setter - Hard work, you get to be a virtuoso and some people will actively hate you because of your work!
• Roped access worker L3 - standing around, drinking unfeasible quantities of tea, telling people off. Still grotty, and long hours.
• Climbing film maker - Your fastidious nature means you spend hours agonising over the detail, but then the goons will scrutinise your work, so you need to.
• Roped access trainer - sitting around, drinking unfathomable quantities of tea, eating biscuits, paying for Alex Puccio's internet and telling people off on internet forums. Oh, and running climbing soft goods companies on the side
• climbing soft goods manufacturer - you work really hard, but dont have to do too much goon liason, and besides - you are Ben Moon, so none of this matters, you were the best in the world! Go and look at that picture of agincourt again.
• sponsored hero - you get to go climbing all the time, but everyone always expects you to be on it, and then you have to go to boot demoes and talk to people - Pretending that you care that they want to do their first 7a this year.
• Gear rep - you drive around the country in a fast car someone else has paid for, getting to go to the gear shops and burning their staff off on their projects. A young single man's job (excepting Paul Craven ;-))
• Climbing Wall owner - the cream of the crop.

Right, i think i have offended nearly everyone there. Back to work



Source: The Blog of Dob

[Doylo]

I've never done a 12 hour day on the ropes. Have done very little hard dirty work and am getting paid today to go climbing. It's a big industry Dob, plenty of good work aswell as shit work .

[Jaspersharpe]

With #9 you forgot to add "earning fuckloads of money". Otherwise pretty much correct.

[petejh]

Doylo you haven't got a hard-working bone in your body. You'll make a fine L3 one day but the water retetnion from drinking 5 litres of tea per day may mean you'll never send The Brute, instead watching its lower-off rings recede slowly into the distance as your tea-drinking, van sitting and bank-balance increase.

Good list, brings out the autisitic side in me. I'd add:

Guide (somewhere between 9 and 11): Get to spend 4 years on a course so you can blow all your joints and back through doing really dangerous things like roping inexperienced people up unprotected icy slopes and ridges. End up eventually hating climbing through it's relentless gnawing away at your free time, health and psych to climb the hard routes you once dreamed of.
Manager of a rope access company: The strawberry on top of the cream (obviously). Not really many downsides, get paid loads of money, free vehicle, lots of free time to climb, get to boss L3's, 2's and 1's around, office job so no physical work required. The only bad part is having to deal with work-shy L2 shirkers (see above), off-shore primadonna L3's and people expecting jobs started yesterday.  And paint.

[Ru]

The problem with a lot of the low end climbing jobs is that they're pretty short-termist. Few of them offer a pension or enough money for savings or a house etc, and few have the potential to lead to more lucrative careers. It's not impossible to cobble a good living together from nothing in your mid to late 30s, but its not easy.

Now, at the moment (in the west) we are at the end of the most prosperous and peaceful period of 60 years that human beings have possibly ever enjoyed. Healthcare is free; there's a bit of state pension; food, petrol and flights are cheap; etc. So not earning much money hasn't really been a problem for our generation.

But if all that gets eroded away (and there's a good chance that it will, by dwindling resources/unsustainable national debts/climate change etc), some climbers risk being caught short and that won't be fun.

Of course that might be doom mongering and the current way of life may be safe for a good while yet, but it's a big risk to take for the sake of a couple of grades that will be old hat in 15 years anyway.

 

[Adam Lincoln]

Haha,you have obviously been speaking to the wrong guys in Rope Access Dob! 

70k a year for 6 months work? For a couple of hours work a day? Can't think of many other job that you can do that with.

[a dense loner]

Dobs i didn't remember seeing you when the 3 rope access members of our house spent at least a mth working on the most advanced drill ship in the world n retiring to the 5 star hotel at night but I do see the point you're making, oh no wait I don't. Rope access work has little or nothing at all to do with climbing, thats just a means to get to the worksite. What we should all be doing obviously is working in a clean environment staring at a monitor and going to the board 3 times a week and doing the same problems.
I'm glad i've made it in at #9, it's the first time I've ever been in the top ten of anything.

[cowboyhat]

Fucking classic Dob. Timely too; I recently had a drunken rant about this to some of our friends and emerged the next morning feeling slightly embarrassed, hoping they'd forgotten.

I made a decision about all this aged about seventeen, for me it remains the correct one.



Adam, really? Open ended is that, retire at 55-60 of your choosing?

Dense, "Rope access work has little or nothing at all to do with climbing", yes but that isn't Dobs point. Its about people getting into these jobs through climbing which he believes can be short term-ism in career choice. Its not all its cracked up to be. But then few things are.

Lots of people enter rope access who don't climb, this missive isn't aimed at them.

[Bonjoy]

Top blogging Dob. How do rope access middle management rank?

Ru - That's one pragmatic way to hedge against a possibly darker future. But have a look at Sausage's blog for another. If you go down the path of sacrificing now to hedge against the future you risk having a shit time now AND then. If you enjoy now at the possible expense of the future at least you'll almost certainly have a good time now. There are loads of reasons why the best laid plans don't always work out. If you take the view that things will get harder in the future, how can you gauge how much harder? Different levels of hard will favour different career choices after all. If it's really bad everyone will have a shit time, in which case why waste now when the going is good?

[Ru]

Top blogging Dob. How do rope access middle management rank?

Ru - That's one pragmatic way to hedge against a possibly darker future. But have a look at Sausage's blog for another. If you go down the path of sacrificing now to hedge against the future you risk having a shit time now AND then. If you enjoy now at the possible expense of the future at least you'll almost certainly have a good time now. There are loads of reasons why the best laid plans don't always work out. If you take the view that things will get harder in the future, how can you gauge how much harder? Different levels of hard will favour different career choices after all. If it's really bad everyone will have a shit time, in which case why waste now when the going is good?

That's a little bit too black and white. It's just about hedging your bets a bit. My point is that its a little naive to assume that the safety nets that have allowed previous generations to climb full time throughout their 20s and 30s without being concerned about having any sort of financial cushion will always be there. You don't have to believe that the future will be Mad Max to notice that food and fuel prices are increasing rapidly, welfare is being cut and free services are being privatised and given to the lowest bidder.

[Jaspersharpe]

I made a decision about all this aged about seventeen, for me it remains the correct one.

Likewise. In the short term I would have avoided earning a pittance for years while studying / gaining experience but it's worked out to be well worth it.

Especially now that I'm a spawny bastard who only has to go in to work one day a week for a few hours.

[Nibile]

I must have done something wrong. I have two jobs at the moment, one is massively underpayed, and I also commute for it, and the other is totally for free with long days. I have no time for proper training and climbing. Thursday I added 4 kilos to all my BM personal bests, though. 

[Oldmanmatt]

So I'm building a climbing wall...
And I guess I'll own half of it (top half?)...


It's costing a fortune!

Long hours and hard work...


Not much in the way of income...


All that employee hassle...


Not going to get to let someone else run it, I've got to put in the hours myself/ourselves (the numbers don't stack up for anything else).

Nah, you do cos you want to work in climbing.


Don't have to retire at 55, mind you...

[Pitcairn]

You also forgot being a geologist.  In the last 5 years Ive done field work in Scotland, Sweden, Australia, New Zealand amongst other places and combined all of thee trips with climbing.    For example 4 week trip to Victoria, australia paid for through my research grants led to 2 weeks climbing in the Grampians.  As an academic I get a lot of flexibility with time so can climb if the weathers good and work when its not.  The pay isnt bad and the security (if you get a permanent position) is excellent.  It does however take a long time to qualify for (8 years uni as a student plus 1 or 3 postdocs).   

[petejh]

It does however take a long time to qualify for (8 years uni as a student plus 1 or 3 postdocs).   

Can't rush geology.

[Bonjoy]

That's a little bit too black and white. It's just about hedging your bets a bit. My point is that its a little naive to assume that the safety nets that have allowed previous generations to climb full time throughout their 20s and 30s without being concerned about having any sort of financial cushion will always be there. You don't have to believe that the future will be Mad Max to notice that food and fuel prices are increasing rapidly, welfare is being cut and free services are being privatised and given to the lowest bidder.

Of course, I agree. I'm sure most people try to walk somewhere in the middle. But whatever you do is a gamble. It's likely that throwing all your eggs in the now basket is the wisest choice for some people. Personal aptitude versus opportunity cost, etc.

[moose]

to further torture the analogy... there's nowt wrong with putting all your eggs in one basket, providing you made the basket.

[SA Chris]

and have a cool safe place to put the basket.

[comPiler]

The Tipping point
25 June 2013, 9:47 am

There must come a point in your climbing 'career' (Is there something presumptuous in calling it a 'career'? Climbing isn't a career, it's fun) when you stop getting better, and start getting worse?

From an athletic point of view there's definately a peak physical fitness age, when one can be the most beastly, but with climbing its so much more than beastliness (or should be). Perhaps that's what keeps us interested? Such a complex activity - so many facets, variables, opportunities and things to get wrong - its rarely just a simple question of strength (although be under no illusion, that helps).

I wondered whether i had reached my tipping point. I'm sure I used to be better on the board, more bouncy, better at comps and so on. But on consideration - i don't know that that is the case. I haven't been on the board as much as i used to go on it - I've been out rock climbing. So I might not be as strong, but am I a better climber? possibly (hopefully!). I think I've done more things, and I feel more competent, but where in the past I would have done some reet hard moves to get up something hard, now I have to climb it more efficiently. Within us all there is a ceiling limit of how good you can be with the resources (time, genetic muscle makeup, ability) we have. Or is there?! I'm all for boundless optimism, but realism creeps in, undermining my aspirations of burning Neddy off or doing one armers on the belay of Mecca!

Ah Mecca, Mecca, Mecca. Object of desire for so many, and more busy than the M62 on a friday night just lately. What does one do when confronted by the prospect of sitting in traffic? One does something else and waits for it to calm down. Then I saw Char's video :



(Sexy guy at 20m - for 10s)

and that got me all psyched to go on it again! It's a cool route, and I dont like to leave things undone. But I dont lie awake at night thinking of the moves on it. That I think is because its already turned into too much of a siege. I should probably have gotten my head down and sorted it out already, but for various reasons - time, skin, fitness, child, fear - I've so far managed not to do it. But, watching the above, and being reminded of what I consider the halcyon days of limestone sport climbing, has made me want it again.  

Perhaps because of my advancing years my project desire (i.e. the drive to get stuck into projects) has been tempered by a love of getting to the top! what I mean here is that I like doing hard moves, but I like succeeding more. So whilst I would like to climb 8c, i recognise that the effort required to make that happen would detract from the fun i could be having climbing more temperate things. Maybe then, this is the tipping point? instead of getting on dead hard things with blind optimism, maybe now I'm more realistic in my goals???

Source: The Blog of Dob

[Three Nine]

Hi Dobbin, Mecca is so well within your current ability you could def get it ticked with a lot less physical ability - you just need to not be such a colossal pussy. If you were unaffected by climbing above bolts you would smash it easy. You can def address that shit without needing much more time, but it will be unpleasant to begin with. The most important thing is that you don't kid yourself that you can get around this somehow. Got to take this shit head on.

[Nibile]

The Tipping point
25 June 2013, 9:47 am

There must come a point in your climbing 'career' when you stop getting better, and start getting worse?

maybe now I'm more realistic in my goals???

Source: The Blog of Dob

The answers are:
- yes, and you are right there.
- no, you just suck more.

[Wood FT]

Hi Dobbin, Mecca is so well within your current ability you could def get it ticked with a lot less physical ability - you just need to not be such a colossal pussy. If you were unaffected by climbing above bolts you would smash it easy. You can def address that shit without needing much more time, but it will be unpleasant to begin with. The most important thing is that you don't kid yourself that you can get around this somehow. Got to take this shit head on.