[cha1n]

Is it possible to be a decent climber and NOT have to do all this type of boring stuff that involves not being outside on rock?

I know I should probably be training indoors but I'm looking for genuine reasons not to. Does the feeling of climbing something really hard make up for spending half your time climbing time (or more) training?

[andy_e]

Is it possible to be a decent climber and NOT have to do all this type of boring stuff that involves not being outside on rock?

Yes, but unfortunately it seems you have to be naturally gifted. Back around, genes.

[bendavison]

Does the feeling of climbing something really hard make up for spending half your time climbing time (or more) training?

As Stu said, its quite fun.

[cha1n]

Yeh, figured as much.

Think I'm a naturally talented athlete in general (find most sports easy to get good at) but have naturally shit finger pulleys! I guess I'm only going to improve their strength via boring training.

I was thinking of people like Haydn who seem to only climb but 'crush' stuff. Bastard (no offence Haydn).

[abarro81]

it's defo possible to train stuff like that on rock - go do loads of laps on an appropriate route instead of doing it at the wall. Go bouldering on lime instead of fingerboarding or going on a board indoors. It just takes a more time than going inside so you'll struggle unless you've got a lot of spare time or can trade off talent. Stu went and did his ancap at the tor the other night - stopwatch geekery and glorious outdoors all rolled into 1

[Wood FT]

From what I gather Hayden climbs more than any other person I know, combine that with a psyche so strong Cuadrilla are looking at fracking it and he probably doesn't need the wall that much.

I often feel guilty about not going to the wall this time of year but then I remember that i'm a) hairy and b) have no attention span

look, a squirrel

[cha1n]

Bloody keen people polishing up our rock to do their ancap training!

[andy_e]

Inside or out, training is boring.

I tried to find the video of Homer chasing a squirrel on youtube but only found one of him chasing Uter, then got bored and gave up.

[Stu Littlefair]

Inside or out, training is awesome.

I tried to find the video of Homer chasing a squirrel on youtube but only found one of him chasing Uter, then got bored and gave up.

Fixed that for you.
You can be great and never train. You can train and never be great.
You'll never be great without focus, and oh look a squirrel.

[Johnny Brown]

Is it possible to be a decent climber and NOT have to do all this type of boring stuff that involves not being outside on rock?

Yes, but unfortunately it seems you have to be naturally gifted. Back around, genes.

Bollocks. Imagine those trainers had spent all that time they spend training moving on rock instead. Hey presto, 'naturally gifted' climbers, and their trainer friends moan that they will have to go inside and get strong because they aren't so lucky...

Beautiful night tonight, think I might go soloing at Stanage, and then find somewhere comfortable and linger in the nice gritstone evening reading (and enjoying, because my soul didn't atrophy training) Moby Dick.

[petejh]

Out of this discussion is missing the vital bit about 'depends on the end goal'.

JB - from what I know and can infer, the probability of you ever climbing properly hard on limestone is close to zero - the small uncertainly reflects a miniscule chance of you having a total personality reversal. But you're a relatively good gritstone/trad climber in general because competence (but not excellence, anymore) at this type of climbing can be achieved without recourse to indoor purgatory pleasure.

[dave]

Bollocks. Imagine those trainers had spent all that time they spend training moving on rock instead.

A significant proportion of that time would be spent "moving on rock" in the pitch dark and/or pissing rain.

[Stu Littlefair]

Bollocks. Imagine those trainers had spent all that time they spend training moving on rock instead. Hey presto, 'naturally gifted' climbers, and their trainer friends moan that they will have to go inside and get strong because they aren't so lucky...

Luckily you don't have to imagine because there will be a load of this type of climber at Stanage this evening. They'll be the ones bumbling up E1s.

Beautiful night tonight, think I might go soloing at Stanage, and then find somewhere comfortable and linger in the nice gritstone evening reading (and enjoying, because my soul didn't atrophy training) Moby Dick.

Good for you. I'll be at the foundry again tonight. This will give me the extra hour I need to finish the Patrick Melrose series. Let me know when you do Rainshadow.

[Johnny Brown]

E1s? I was thinking more along the lines of Sharma.

I'll never even try Rainshadow obviously. It holds no appeal. I'm sure I've done some stuff you are equally unlikely to do, or that might pass Pete's criteria for excellence, but that would miss the point - which is that for me doing holds a lot more value than having done.

[rodma]

I love training, but I don't have any rock near me. Well that's not true,  I don't love training, but I like focusing on stuff and being as strong as  I can be.

Can someone turn the clock back a fewish decades, clone me, move the clone to Sheffield, clone the clone and make one love grit regardless of connies and see who had climbed the hardest by the age of 39. Oh, and obviously don't let any of us know about each other, or else we may get a wee bit competitive.

I went through a period of not training so much indoors, but I would climb outside, if possible, every weekend, where I would do a relatively large amount of volume and then project something too hard for me every session. I got a bit better and stronger through this period, managing a few font 7c+'s, none of which were sieges.

Don't get me wrong, this was nice and everything, but I was definitely limiting myself by not training as well,  but I wasn't doing routes, so shouldn't be writing this essay on stu (how come you're not older than me you've been a hero to me for years what with your comp history, flashing hard problems in  bleau, training, projecting then succeeding, despite your age, how can I go on knowing I'm the old one )'s blog aggregator

[Doylo]

I only seem to be able to train in winter. Probably why I'll never do Rainshadow either..

[Stu Littlefair]

E1s? I was thinking more along the lines of Sharma.

I'll never even try Rainshadow obviously. It holds no appeal. I'm sure I've done some stuff you are equally unlikely to do, or that might pass Pete's criteria for excellence, but that would miss the point - which is that for me doing holds a lot more value than having done.

My point really was the same as Pete's. When a goal gets hard enough for you, training will be essential to achieve it. Outdoors or indoors, it makes no difference. It makes me laugh when people hold Sharma up as an example of someone who doesn't train. He's as thoughtful and systematic in his training as anyone; it's just he runs laps on routes and problems outdoors, and pretends it's just going climbing.

Your last point cuts to the heart of it. Training will help you achieve goals. But obviously there's a short term cost in not being free to go out and do whatever you wish. Whether that's worth it is obviously a personal decision and depends on how much you enjoy training, and how much you're driven by ambition.

Where I suspect we disagree a lot is on the utility of climbing indoors. I always get a very dismissive vibe from you, which I guess is based on personal distaste? That's fine of course, but I think it can lead you to make errors about how useful it can be. Sure, we all know people who can 1-5-9 but think they need to get stronger to climb 8A. I also know plenty of folk who climb outdoors all the time who have lousy technique.

No amount of outdoor climbing will get you good movement skills if you're not mindful of what you are doing. Likewise, if you pay attention to climbing well, and practice movement you can learn a lot indoors. Some of the most technically gifted climbers I've ever seen are youngsters on the comp circuit...

[abarro81]

What are you on about Stu, the likes of Markovic and Sachi are technically inept thugs who'll never get up anything outdoors with their shitty indoor based technique.

[AlistairB]

Your last point cuts to the heart of it. Training will help you achieve goals. But obviously there's a short term cost in not being free to go out and do whatever you wish. Whether that's worth it is obviously a personal decision and depends on how much you enjoy training, and how much you're driven by ambition.

This. I'm one of those people who trains indoors sometimes when the sun is shining and unlike Stu, Ben or Barrows, I'm at the bottom end of the 8s not the top or even low 9s which probably makes me super uncool. Occasionally I have my frustrations with what I've chosen to do but I get more than enough fulfillment when I get to put the hard work into practice. After all, when you live in Sheffield there's actually plenty of nice days to go climbing across an entire year even if you lose the odd evening to the Foundry.

I don't aspire to numbers but I aspire to great lines and moves which are usually (not always) hard by virtue of the terrain they cover. I am nowhere near talented enough to just climb and be able to do these things that I want to do. But with a bit of monotony and the sacrifice of some instant gratification, I'm getting there and mostly loving every minute of both the training and the climbing.

This week I trained inside Monday and Wednesday and had a few people ask why I was inside. Last night I went to the WCJ cornice and did the moves on Rumble in the Jungle and had a complete blast doing great moves in an amazing setting. For me anyway I couldn't have Thursday night without the Monday & Wednesday, I'd be still on Brachiation Dance and still getting pumped on jugs without the plastic sessions. Depends what you want from climbing.

[AlistairB]

By the way, great blog as always Stu .

[Doylo]

Any climber within spitting distance would love to do Rainshshadow. It's one of the best routes in the country. It's 9a though so unfortunately sunny evenings on Stanage have to be sacrificed. Simples.

[bendavison]

I'm at the bottom end of the 8s not the top or even low 9s yet which probably makes me super uncool

Fixed that for you 

No amount of outdoor climbing will get you good movement skills if you're not mindful of what you are doing. Likewise, if you pay attention to climbing well, and practice movement you can learn a lot indoors.

  

[jakes]

Well done!

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v523/n7562/full/nature14619.html

[tomtom]

Good work Stu.

[comPiler]

The Pinnacle of Success
30 January 2016, 6:36 pm



So yeah, I did a thing and climbed a route. That was aeons ago now. I should have written a blog about it, but after I'd vomited all my thoughts about it onto the internet, I couldn't quite face it. Most importantly, having triumphed over adversity, etc, I could relax and start to enjoy my climbing again...

Life after Rainshadow, in which piglet goes climbing

[tr][td][/td][/tr][tr][td]Montserrat South Face[/td][/tr]

[/table]So there we were in Montserrat. It's not a trendy place to go, but for a long time now I'd had an idea in my head. Fly to Spain, hire a van and tour round Catalunya enjoying the "vias largas", the classic multi pitch routes found throughout the region. It would be the perfect way to relax after Christmas; long, easy routes in the sun with Jules and a guaranteed room with a view. So far, the plan was unfolding perfectly. We'd hired a van from Cargoling that was new, well equipped and comfortable. We'd done a nice easy slab in the sunshine, and had our multi pitch heads on. Time for a classic Montserrat outing.

"the rating is spicy and the distance between bolts is hot rather than spicy, but let us not forget that we are in Sant Benet, the temple of sandbagging..." - Montserrat Free Climbs

So, ok, the guide was a little off-putting, but Toby had recommended this route - Brown Sugar - to us before we left. It climbs a direct route up the Momia; one of the classic Montserrat towers up above the monastery and it's only 6b+. We'd be fine...

[tr][td][/td][/tr][tr][td]La Momia (right). Brown sugar climbs the wall just to the right of the LH gully.[/td][/tr]

[/table]Reader, I shit myself.

The first pitch is 6a+. Twenty metres. Four bolts. This is ground I should be quite happy soloing, but honestly, the rock in this part of Montserrat is like nothing else. It's like climbing blindfold. It's slabby death. Every foot of rock contains a thousand pebbles. Every pebble looks good. Each pebble is a worthless, rounded, polished son-of-a-bitch. Basically every move is the same; pick a pebble you think your foot might stick to and stand on it. Now feel around - there are quite a few pebbles to choose from so this might take you some time. Eventually, you'll find a rounded piece of shit that's just bad enough to allow to move up an inch, where you can start the whole thing all over again. So, even though this pitch is 6a+, I'm stood about 100 feet above my first bolt, and not only can I not see how to do the next move, I have no idea if I'm even in the right place. Honestly, three feet to the right it looks the same. Three feet to the left is f*cking identical. A million feet above me is the next bolt, smirking. Somehow, there has to be a route through all this to safety, but I'm buggered if I know what it is. The only thing to do is to pick a pebble...

[tr][td][/td][/tr][tr][td]Pick a pebble, punk....[/td][/tr]

[/table]An hour later I lash myself to the belay and try not to hug it. I do have a rep to uphold. Jules follows me up with what I will refer to as her "concerned face", which is the one she wears when I've talked her into something and she's not 100% convinced I can get her out of it. We have a little chat, where Jules suggests we may have bitten off more than we can chew and I, possessing the memory of a goldfish, persuade her it will be fine and we should at least have a look at the crux pitch, described as "intricate and bold". Which is just my bag.

We won't dwell on this pitch, except to say that I made it up somehow, and that I made it up the next pitch as well. Eventually we fell into a rhythm of smearing and searching and guessing and trying not to think about how far you were above the bolt, or how far it was to the next one. We were making progress and had made it to the point where the guide suggested "from here the gear improves". A good job too, because each pitch was taking its toll; eroding a tiny piece of my cool and winding me up a little bit tighter. I didn't have much left before I'd snap. No bother, only two pitches left.

The next pitch was a joy. The pebbles had got bigger, the angle steeper and the bolts closer together and I swarmed upwards in the sun, loving the position, loving the climbing, loving life. After a short while I found myself at the bottom of a small groove with a hard sequence at the top, leading to easier angled rock above. The hard sequence would take me away from the bolt, so I dithered a bit - my earlier nerves returning - before clenching my jaw and smashing on through. With a bit of udging and some fancy footwork I found myself balanced on the slab and facing disaster.

I couldn't see any holds. I couldn't see any bolts above. Every direction above looked blank and hostile and unprotected. The last bolt, a quintillion miles below me, was also out of sight; buried in the back of the groove. I was stuck, I was scared and I did not know which way to go.  I could feel the panic welling up. There was only one thing for it. I rested my head on the rock and screamed my little heart out. It must have helped because when I looked back up there was the belay, a few feet to the left. How about that? One easy pitch more and we were up at the summit, enjoying the views to the coast in the last light of the day. We abbed off and walked home in the dusk, with the evensong bells tolling clearly out below us.

[tr][td][/td][/tr][tr][td]Me and Jules on the top of the Momia. I have my traumatised face on.[/td][/tr]

[/table]After this, we moved on. We did some other routes around Catalunya but nothing else was quite like Montserrat, so we found ourselves back there towards the end of the trip enjoying easier, gentler outings and some truly outstanding single pitch routes. I'm not sure why Montserrat is so quiet; Margalef and Siurana were heaving (and freezing), but we barely encountered other climbers whilst we were there. The place has it's devotees for sure; Chris Craggs loves the place (nowhere's perfect). However, it doesn't see the attention it deserves, if you ask me. A new guidebook will help. Montserrat Free Climbs is written in English and details routes on the North and South side of the mountain. It has single and multi pitch routes, both sport and trad and contains advice on the gear for most routes. This is pretty crucial; two routes the same grade can be very different days out, depending on whether the pitches have one, or twenty, bolts! It's also an inspiring guide, with great photos and tempting descriptions. Buy it, and head out here for a week or two. You won't be disappointed, although you might get your arse kicked!

[tr][td][/td][/tr][tr][td]Jules on top of the Momia[/td][/tr]

[/table]

[tr][td][/td][/tr][tr][td]Jules at the Monastery[/td][/tr]

[/table]

[tr][td][/td][/tr][tr][td]Abbing off Escabroni Escapullini at Can Jorba; delightful easy slab climbing on perfect rock[/td][/tr]

[/table]

[tr][td][/td][/tr][tr][td]Selfie! Above the road at Villanova de Meia[/td][/tr]

[/table]

[tr][td][/td][/tr][tr][td]Top notch single pitch climbing at Vermell de Xincarro[/td][/tr]

[/table]



Source: The Spherical Cow