[SA Chris]

Fruit and veggie bits obviously.

While dieting is being discussed, does anyone ever actually manage this? (herbivorous type excepted).

I normally manage about 3 or 4 max a day in the week and about 7 on a weekend day.

[Rocksteady]

My mate (a pretty dedicated and useful triathlete) reckons that 35 a week works out just as well as 5 a day, so it doesn't matter if you don't make it your quota some days, you can catch up by 'fruiting up' at the weekend. He reckons he read this somewhere.

I find this appealing as it is pretty tough to get 5 a day on workdays when fruit/veg portions do have to be pretty large. Like 1/2 a lettuce is one portion, and I don't get 1/2 a lettuce into a salad.

I reckon I make 4 a day, most days.

[BB]

I hit over 5 a day without too much bother and I don't eat breakfast.

3 pieces of fruit (different ones) for lunch
meat and 3 different veg for dinner

job done.

[magpie]

Did you know that they* are now saying that actually it should be 7 or 9 a day and not 5, but decided to stick with publicising 5 as people would shit themselves (possibly literally) if they thought they had to eat that many to be healthy.

Anyway, it's worth looking into what constitutes one portion, it's a lot less than you think, and you can use seeds or nuts for one, juice for one, possibly pulses too, various things other than just standard fruit and veg.

I can dig out more info from my lady site if you are interested, or suggestions of how to fit in 5, should you feel the need to.  Once you know portion size and the substitutes it's fairly easy if you are a healthy eater.

*no, I don't know who they are, the SCIENCE guys. 

[magpie]

Some possibly useful links:

NHS shizzle:
http://www.nhs.uk/livewell/5aday/pages/5adayhome.aspx

9 a day SCIENCE:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article6422824.ece

More FAQ here:
http://www.eatwell.gov.uk/asksam/healthydiet/fruitandvegq/

[JamesD]

I hit over 5 a day without too much bother and I don't eat breakfast.

3 pieces of fruit (different ones) for lunch
meat and 3 different veg for dinner

job done.

Same here.....although I try to eat breakfast most days.

[Fiend]

Do you actually eat ANY a day, SCIENCEPIE?? And I'm sure capri sun doesn't count...

[magpie]

O RLY? 



 

[Fiend]

Is that SCIENCE or ADVERTISING?? I'm not sure a cute cartoon thumb makes Capri Sun the natural healthy fruit option.

Hmmm actually 100% orange juice does look kinda convincing. Are those the ones you drink??

Hey I wonder if the pack of Skittles I've just nommed count??

[Fatboy]

Some great linkage there Magpie and defo edumakated me - I actually do better than I thought and must be close to 5 a day, and over at the weekends!! 

[fiveknuckle21]

It's a life goal of mine to get this into one meal and the usual method is a morning smoothie:

1x Bananana
1x Orange
1x Apple, cored
1x Melon slice (about 1/6 of ye standard)
1x Small yoghurt to add some texture
4 or 5 bits of ice
a trickle of honey

Blend it up and bob's your uncle. You don't have to eat for the rest of the day. Fact.

[BB]

O RLY? 



 

Maggers, do you want me to send you the ascii owl? 

[magpie]

It's easier to do than people think, really, it just sounds hard.  Also, most people think a portion is big, it's not.

B: Peice of fruit with cereal, porridge or yoghurt - 2 or 3 is easy if you do different berries.  Fruit juice is another one if you have a glass of that.  Some nuts onto of your fruity concotion can be another.
L: Some sort of pulse or salad (either on it's own or as part of a roll / sandwich)
D: Meat or pasta etc and two more veg

Snacks of fruit and nuts during the day can count for 2 or 3 more.  Olives count, hummous might even, I can't remember.  The above would give you 9 if you made sure you were eating different sorts of fruit and not doubling up on nuts / pulses / juices / smoothies.

Also, things like passata count, tinned fruit and veg or frozen stuff as well as fresh, soup can have several in, you can count one from things like chilli or stew provided you've put some veg in.

With all this information in my tiny head I should be super healthy really. 

I am going to Google ascii owl, it better be work safe.   

Edit:  It is. 

{o,o}
|)__)
-"-"-
O RLY?

[slackline]

I am going to Google ascii owl, it better be work safe.   

Edit:  It is. 

{o,o}
|)__)
-"-"-
O RLY?

Digital form > ASCII...



Lots more ASCII Owls

[Three Nine]

I reckon its really easy to get your 5 a day in. I snack on fruit and carrots and stuff through the day. Its nice, doesn't make you fat, and is doubtless good for you. Definitely makes you feel less guilty than biscuits.

[Snoops]

My mate (a pretty dedicated and useful triathlete) reckons that 35 a week works out just as well as 5 a day, so it doesn't matter if you don't make it your quota some days, you can catch up by 'fruiting up' at the weekend. He reckons he read this somewhere.

I find this appealing as it is pretty tough to get 5 a day on workdays when fruit/veg portions do have to be pretty large. Like 1/2 a lettuce is one portion, and I don't get 1/2 a lettuce into a salad.

I reckon I make 4 a day, most days.

Not sure this is true. Ascorbic Acid (Vit C) etc, you can only absorb x amount at a time, the rest gets excreted by the body. Ergo, intaking small amounts regularly works far better than having a large amount at once.

[Lund]

My mate (a pretty dedicated and useful triathlete) reckons that 35 a week works out just as well as 5 a day, so it doesn't matter if you don't make it your quota some days, you can catch up by 'fruiting up' at the weekend. He reckons he read this somewhere.

I find this appealing as it is pretty tough to get 5 a day on workdays when fruit/veg portions do have to be pretty large. Like 1/2 a lettuce is one portion, and I don't get 1/2 a lettuce into a salad.

I reckon I make 4 a day, most days.

Not sure this is true. Ascorbic Acid (Vit C) etc, you can only absorb x amount at a time, the rest gets excreted by the body. Ergo, intaking small amounts regularly works far better than having a large amount at once.

True, but not the point - the five-a-day stuff is not about just getting vitamin C.  Otherwise it would be five oranges a day (or a magic linus tablet with 10000000000mg in).

[SA Chris]

Not sure this is true. Ascorbic Acid (Vit C) etc, you can only absorb x amount at a time, the rest gets excreted by the body. Ergo, intaking small amounts regularly works far better than having a large amount at once.

Was told the same by doc at last checkup. Having loads of fruit at once on a weekedn will give the bowel a good cleanout, but not much more. Need a regualr intake of roughage, vitamins etc.

[Rocksteady]

Obv there's loads of health benefits to loading up on fruit and veg, but what about the downside?

Particularly with smoothies and orange juice, they are whack-full of sugar. Too much of that ain't good for ya, and can be quite high in calories. My bro always insists on a glass of OJ every morning as on his way to 5-a-day, but he recently had to spend some painful time in the dentist and pay couple of hundred quid for emergency appointment. Bad times.

Food for thought (sorry).

[SA Chris]

Food for fart too.

[rodma]

Obv there's loads of health benefits to loading up on fruit and veg, but what about the downside?

Particularly with smoothies and orange juice, they are whack-full of sugar. Too much of that ain't good for ya, and can be quite high in calories. My bro always insists on a glass of OJ every morning as on his way to 5-a-day, but he recently had to spend some painful time in the dentist and pay couple of hundred quid for emergency appointment. Bad times.

Food for thought (sorry).

I have a glass of freshly squeezed orange juice and grapefruit juice every morning, have done for about the last 8 years. If I thought that it was ruining my teeth I would stop. I wouldn't want to lose my Austin-Powers-esque smile after all 

[Rocksteady]

So it's not gospel but it's a starting point for more SCIENCE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_erosion

[Krank]

i more often than not get 0 a day or maybe 1, am i gonna die? will getting 5 a day make me stronger?

[ben87]

I reckon its really easy to get your 5 a day in. I snack on fruit and carrots and stuff them in through the day.

I've heard carrots are good for you too, I find its only easy to get 5 small ones in a day though.

[SA Chris]

So it's not gospel but it's a starting point for more SCIENCE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_erosion

No

brushing immediately after consuming acidic food and drink as teeth will be softened. Leave at least half an hour of time space. Rinsing with water is better than brushing after consuming acidic foods and drinks

Mustard Mitt I never knew that.

[rodma]

No

brushing immediately after consuming acidic food and drink as teeth will be softened. Leave at least half an hour of time space. Rinsing with water is better than brushing after consuming acidic foods and drinks

Mustard Mitt I never knew that.

I found that rinsing with a latte helps 

[slackline]

Easy...



Good variety of flavours there. 

The 2 Chilli and Wasabi Seabrooks pack quite a punch, well worth checking out.

[magpie]

Seabrooks are normally good crisps, those ones look excellent. 

[SA Chris]

Does a muller fruit corner count as one?

[magpie]

It might do, possibly.  Jam doesn't but fruit compote stuff generally does.

[magpie]

This could be useful, anything you put in your basket, it will tell you if it counts towards five a day.

[BB]

I think I set a recored yesterday.

Had breakfast for the first time in ages, greek yoghurt with summer fruits, luch was the usual tangerine, apple and a banana.

went mad at dinner and had roasted spatchcock chicken with roasted squash and corgette, with a side of red cabbage and some home-made guacamole with choped tomotaoes. Washed it down with an apple and kiwi fruit smoothy.

All in all, a staggering 10 portions.

[SA Chris]

Good shit.

[Falling Down]

Obv there's loads of health benefits to loading up on fruit and veg, but what about the downside?

The worst for your teeth is munching on grapes, cherries or other pieces of fruit throughout the day one after the other. Better to get a load in one go than grazing on sugary fruits.

[magpie]

lunch was the usual tangerine, apple and a banana.

You had other stuff too, right?  I would keel over by about 3pm if I only had fruit for lunch.

Good work though, 10 portions is impressive and shows it's not that hard to do 5 a day.

[Jaspersharpe]

Just eat five cherry bakewells a day?

[lagerstarfish]

3 cherry bakewells, 1 martini (with olive) and a bottle of wine (made from grapes innit) and you'll be fine Jas

[Jaspersharpe]

Nice to know I'm doing it right.

[BB]

You had other stuff too, right?  I would keel over by about 3pm if I only had fruit for lunch.

No nothing else. It was quite hard to get used to it to start with, but my body has got used to it now and doesn't start to compain until after work.

There's a Starbucks in my company's building so on the odd occasion i get hungry, I've been know to substitue food for a great big 4 shot skinny latte.

[magpie]

I would actually probably die if I only ate fruit for lunch, I am concerned for you. :motherhen:

It has to be five different types, Jasper, 5 cherry bakewells would only count as one. 

[JamesD]

You had other stuff too, right?  I would keel over by about 3pm if I only had fruit for lunch.

No nothing else. It was quite hard to get used to it to start with, but my body has got used to it now and doesn't start to compain until after work.

There's a Starbucks in my company's building so on the odd occasion i get hungry, I've been know to substitue food for a great big 4 shot skinny latte.

Out of interest what is your reasoning behind this?

Do you think it might be a good idea to eat a bit of protein as well, maybe some cheese or a bit of meat in addition?

[BB]

My reasoning is that lower volume of food = less weight. Also, fresh fruit has a very low preparation time. 

I eat meat in the evening and have protein shakes after gym/wall sessions. Humans aren't designed to eat the quantities of meat that the modern diet includes either. I don't know where I read that, but it sounds like SCIENCE.

[magpie]

I have a really strong urge to make you a nice ham sandwich for your lunch box.   

[BB]

Thanks Magpie, but the missus is bound to get upset about another woman ta....

I'm going to bail out of that joke halfway through, It's far too obvious and simply say that it's a very kind thought.

[JamesD]

My reasoning is that lower volume of food = less weight. Also, fresh fruit has a very low preparation time. 

I eat meat in the evening and have protein shakes after gym/wall sessions. Humans aren't designed to eat the quantities of meat that the modern diet includes either. I don't know where I read that, but it sounds like SCIENCE.

I understand calorie deficits, and of course that makes sense, but my point was its good to maintain a balance, say what you want about the "meat content" of the modern diet (and there are many varying views and opinions on this, all with SCIENCE, to back them up), but my question was why the complete lack of protein?
That doesn't necessarily have to come from meat, or indeed dairy, nuts/seeds etc are all acceptable to one degree or another, it only takes a little delving into how the body processes food to tell you that meals constructed pretty much entirely of carbs (albeit good quality carbs, but still carbs), aren't the best way to lose weight, so I was just interested in the SCIENCE behind your diet philosophy?

[Drew]

While we're on the subject, I have heard that the body cannot absorb more than one food group at a time, so if you have meat and pasta in a meal, the body absorbs either the carbs, or the protein. Anyone heard this?

[Yossarian]

How does it decide? 

Maybe this could form the basis of a new casino game?  I feed Sloper some hearty wild boar penne, everyone lays their bets, then we hold a colander under his arse and wait to see what pops out - some shiny clean pasta or a load of piggy sauce...

[Drew]

I never queried my friend about it, as I didn't really believe here. I think that one will always be absorbed first (possibly fat?), and they always go in the same order. It could very easily be bollox. In fact I'd very much like it if someone can confirm that it is.

[SA Chris]

While we're on the subject, I have heard that the body cannot absorb more than one food group at a time, so if you have meat and pasta in a meal, the body absorbs either the carbs, or the protein. Anyone heard this?

I thought it can't do both at the same time, so it will be first one, then the other. So if you eat both in one meal then it will be longer before you are hungry again. I have no SCIENCE to back this up or probably even a CLUE what i'm talking about though.

[magpie]

I don't think that sounds right.  Not since people specifically do weird food combining diets in order to lose weight, although maybe that's the science behind it, maybe you eat carbs one meal, protein the next?  In short, I have no clue but I am suspicious.

[iain]

I had a friend years ago who was into his food combining. If I understood correctly carbs and protein are digested best in alkaline and acidic environments (think it was that way round) and that if you eat both at the same time your stomach has to do far more work and it's more likely stuff isn't going to be digested properly and be stored as fat. So the idea is you only eat one food type at a time, it gets digested more efficiently, and then you have the next food type, giving you more energy and making you lose weight at the same time 

I think the acid/alkali thing is FACT

[jfw]

the glycaemic index tells you how quickly energy from food can be released (ok simplistic definition)

in general the quicker that energy is delivered, the more of a peak trough hunger cycle you are likely to get in to - ie wham a hit of "sugar", then ooh must replace it

by combining proteins and carbs in one meal - you not only feel satisfied, so the theory goes, but you feel satisfied for longer.

i don't see how poorly digested food is more likely to get turned into fat??

[rich d]

The acid alkali thing makes no sense to me. Are you suggesting that your stomach senses what type of food you've eaten and changes its PH accordingly?

[slackline]

Digestion doesn't just occur in the stomach, thats where everything gets churned up with stomach acid & enzymes to start breaking it down.  Absorption of food then takes place in the large and small intestine as the food pass further along the alimentary canal towards the poop shoot which usually takes over a day.

So anyone positing that you can only absorb one food type at a time needs to reconcile this with everything that they've eaten in the previous +24 hours.

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

Just catching up on this thread. The number 5 in 5 a day is rather arbitrary. The government worked out that the average intake was around 3 portions and decided we needed to consume more. 5 was chosen as a realistic achievable goal. To be more accurate it should be 'at least 5 a day' although they wanted to keep the message as simple as possible.

Mrs Obi was down at Western Park museum yesterday where they have just opened a new exhibition on food. Sponsered by the governments Change4LIfe anti child obesity campaign, they had lots of info and stands promoting diet soft drinks over fruit juice which contains 'lots of sugar' and is therefore bad. Apprantently totally unaware of the growing research that has been circulating for several years linking sweeteners to weight gain not to mention the links with cancer the people manning the stands were insistant that pure fruit juice was unhealthy due to it's high sugar content. Apparently contradicting the '5 a day' advice.

[Clart]

I had a friend years ago who was into his food combining. If I understood correctly carbs and protein are digested best in alkaline and acidic environments (think it was that way round) and that if you eat both at the same time your stomach has to do far more work and it's more likely stuff isn't going to be digested properly and be stored as fat. So the idea is you only eat one food type at a time, it gets digested more efficiently, and then you have the next food type, giving you more energy and making you lose weight at the same time 

I think the acid/alkali thing is FACT

It sounds like you are referring to the Hay Diet (Hay, William 1933). If you were digesting food in a lab then it would make some sense I suppose but fortunately your body is a clever bit of kit that sorts it all out for you, as Slackline implied above. The other problem is that many foods contain both protein and carbohydrate, e.g. lentils, so you'll have a hard time separating them out anyway.

In conclusion, don't bother, a balanced diet is better.

[iain]

The acid alkali thing makes no sense to me. Are you suggesting that your stomach senses what type of food you've eaten and changes its PH accordingly?

I wasn't suggesting that, merely re-iterating what my friend had told me and perhaps showing my utter ignorance of the subject at the same time  ???

[Jaspersharpe]

they had lots of info and stands promoting diet soft drinks over fruit juice which contains 'lots of sugar' and is therefore bad. Apprantently totally unaware of the growing research that has been circulating for several years linking sweeteners to weight gain not to mention the links with cancer the people manning the stands were insistant that pure fruit juice was unhealthy due to it's high sugar content. Apparently contradicting the '5 a day' advice.

Jesus. 

Change4Life sponsored by McDonalds and Coke?

[Lund]

I'm a bit surprised this thread didn't get updated with this bobbins.  I didn't do it, as I've been crushing in font, eating about none a day.

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2010/04/five-fruit-and-veg-a-day-wont.html

But returning to the overall question of whether it is still worth eating 5-a-day, the major reason not to stop yet is spelled out by Willett: where fruits and vegetables may be failing against cancer, they are certainly succeeding against other diseases, especially coronary heart disease, obesity and constipation. In exactly the same EPIC population where fruit failed against cancer, those consuming at least 5-a-day lowered their risk of coronary heart disease or stroke by 30 per cent compared with those on less than 1.5 servings a day.

Perhaps unsurprisingly for the new scientist, they don't do a great job of joining the dots and explaining the difficulty with separating diet from lifestyle, but fundamentally it seems from this and other write-ups that there is nothing in fruit and veg that means eating five different kinds a day will increase your health - certainly with respect to cancer.

On the other hand, nobody is arguing that being a fat bastard is a good way to go to an early grave, so eat those greens as eating them means you're not eating flab pie and thus getting fat and dieing young (rather than in a nursing home, senile and sat in your own urine, aged 900).