[Paul B]

Going through the post today I've found a letter from VCS (vehicle control services) which includes a parking permit to be displayed in my car at all times.
Now this seems a little odd to me, I am a home owner (albeit with a large mortgage) and from what I understand I also own that little parking space down there. I pay a service charge to the management company and also a ground rent.
Can the management company (who run the building) really introduce a system whereby if I park in my own space with either a) a different car or b) my badge not correctly displayed where they can fine/clamp/tow me? This seems like madness.
Add to this the f*ckwits haven't even got the right space number meaning I'm in for a fine first time they come around for a check and I'm not a happy bunny. I really hate city center living.

This just gets better and better. Reading on:
If my Mrs. is at work and Dense decideds he wants to come and leach my internet connection under the pretense of having a cup of coffee, by parking in my space he's liable for a 120 quid fine unless of course he has a vehicle specific parking permit (which of course will be in Nats car) displayed. This is madness, I can now only park 1 car is MY space, regardless of if its empty or not... Fuming.

[vivahate]

What are you to do if someone parks in your space? Wait until they are towed or risk being towed/fined yourself?

Pretty sure if you own the house within the block of flats you have the right to choose the management committee, or even set up a management committee by the residents, should you so wish. I'm sure you can rally some support from other tenants and write a letter expressing your collective disinterest in the system they plan to introduce.

[Paul B]

I am to park "off site" and contact VCS immediately (who will not be responsible for any costs incurred for me having to park off site, parking in any other bay or any other zone will result in a penalty charge).

[Paul B]

apologies for the nigh on illegible first post. I was moody.

[slackline]

What a load of  I don't blame you for being pissed of Paul.

I can park whatever car I want on my drive, you should be able to do the same.

Perhaps worth asking the twats about the scenario's you might encounter (and start considering somewhere else to live maybe).

[Paul B]

we just bought the bloody place. Its 10 mins walk from Uni, I'm not moving until I've finished this damn PHD.

[Jim]

you must be the luckiest guy i know

[Johnny Brown]

Dense has got wireless broadband in his room now. I doubt he'll ever bother you again.

Unless you become an optician, of course, the rate he's going he'll be blind by christmas.

[205Chris]

You might do better asking the question over at www.pepipoo.com

A quick google of their site shows the name VCS cropping up several times in a similar circumstance to yourself and it seems no one has a nice word to say about them.

[cowboyhat]

I don't get why you are complaining about this? Isn't it supposed to be for your benefit?

I live in a modern gated block where I own a parking space. I have a an illegible faded permit three years old. So what?

You have an overpriced service charge, why would you expect anything other than tedious bureaucracy from the management company/freehold owner?

I always take the piss with visitor parking, (my mate left his car when he moved abroad), but I'm really friendly with the concierges = no problems.

Sorry, reading back over this, I don't why I'm replying, it seems like you'll complain about any old shit. Seriously, what is the problem here? I don't get it.

Dense has got wireless broadband in his room now. I doubt he'll ever bother you again.
Unless you become an optician, of course, the rate he's going he'll be blind by christmas.

Amazing.

[Paul B]

I don't get why you are complaining about this? Isn't it supposed to be for your benefit?

I live in a modern gated block where I own a parking space. I have a an illegible faded permit three years old. So what?

You have an overpriced service charge, why would you expect anything other than tedious bureaucracy from the management company/freehold owner?

I always take the piss with visitor parking, (my mate left his car when he moved abroad), but I'm really friendly with the concierges = no problems.

Sorry, reading back over this, I don't why I'm replying, it seems like you'll complain about any old shit. Seriously, what is the problem here? I don't get it.

What the fuck? Please explain how it can be of benefit to me if it limits what I can and can't do with a piece of my own damn property? I can only have one permit which is car specific. Should I want to park anything else there I'm f*cked. Seeing as though we have guests during the day when the space is empty, that causes problems. I also have access to more than one car/vehicle and the permit means they're not interchangeable. F*ck if you take it to the extreme if I have a courtesy car for the day my permit doesn't match and in line with their T&C again I can get a fine.
I see that as an issue. Especially with the amount of new yellow slips I see stuck on car windows right now
Just because there is bureaucracy from the management company I'm not going to bend over and apply the boy butter if I can change it.

Oh and at my place there isn't visitor parking to take the piss with. 

[Paul B]

You might do better asking the question over at www.pepipoo.com

A quick google of their site shows the name VCS cropping up several times in a similar circumstance to yourself and it seems no one has a nice word to say about them.

Thanks Chris.

[cowboyhat]

General point was that in practice these things are not enforced with any zeal. And that if you talk to people without having a default setting called Angry Young Man they can be surprisingly helpful.

Again, isn't this supposed to be for your benefit? Is your space numbered? Otherwise how do you know its yours and how would some 'official' know that someone was parked in your spot? Imagine how mad you'd be if someone was parked in your spot.

I imagine it to be pretty het up.

[Paul B]

They are numbered in 2ft white letters so its not rocket science even for a parking attendant.
 
The parking is enforced, its how the contracted parking services make their living. It might not be at your gaff but tonight there are several yellow fliers kicking around in the do not park areas and enforcement of the bay permits begins on March the 1st. With my luck I'm guaranteed a ticket the first time a mate parks in the space.

I've listed why it isn't in my benefit in my last post, Please do me the decency of reading it. To sum it up if you can't be bothered, I don't give a flying f*ck if they want to ensure people only park in their own bay. I do mind if the way it is done means I can only do so with one vehicle and can therefore not have guests or ever park my 2nd vehicle there should I choose.

'Angry young man' - don't be patronising, you've already been rude.

If someone parks in my space I just park my little fiat behind his X3 D and go to bed. Its simple. They buzz when they want to leave, I ask them politely to to park elsewhere next time. This has happened less than 5 times since I've lived here and isn't a problem.

[cowboyhat]

So you prefer there being no system and having to react in a way that annoys you and your neighbour.

This thing has likely come about because neighbours of yours have complained that cars they don't know are in their spaces or that someone has blocked them in because they couldn't park in their space so they parked in the one next to it.

Are the management company on your side or not? Are they trying to protect your space or not?

You've already signed up to this kind of shit by buying the flat. Its either their system a free for all which you clearly don't want. Yes bureaucratic Britain is annoying but are you sure you could not benefit out of this at all?

[Paul B]

You're guessing again.

This thing has likely come about because neighbours of yours have complained that cars they don't know are in their spaces or that someone has blocked them in because they couldn't park in their space so they parked in the one next to it.

No, I know exactly why it has been brought about. The previous company stopped bothering to vist because it was too far away and as they visited in office hours (when most people were out) they rarely found people parked on the double yellows. Hence it wasn't worth their time.

So the new company has been brought in to address the fact that people without spaces choose to park on the double yellows on site. The side issue being that they also police the bays which has never been done before. This isn't a direct choosing of the management company but a policy of the company they've chosen to employ.

My 'solution' doesn't annoy my neighbour and doesn't particularly bother me, like I said I just park behind them with a note on my car with my number on it. They ring, I move it and ask politely that they park somewhere else next time. Whats your point on this you don't seem to have one? Surely both parties involved see this as a better solution than me having to park in a multi storey over the road and call a company to come and slap a ticket on his car? Not once have I had an issue with doing this.

And yes, I'm sure I won't benefit out of this at all.

I have to say; I wasn't looking for an argument tonight, I was hoping for some helpful input like on the parking ticket thread which I'm sure will be offered at a later point. Your first post suggest I'm a whiny bitch and the second that I'm immature. Thanks for that. Granted I've whined about the works a lot but I wasn't the only person to share those thoughts and after the conversation I had with Percy after recently getting back to Sheffield I don't think there's anything other than healthy banter that remains from that. Hence why I didn't throw a fit at my tickets being marked "weak legs Bennett" for their party.

[cowboyhat]

All this extra info just renders past replies irrelevant. Your situation is nothing like mine.

Generally you seemed to be moaning about a system you willingly bought into and something that could potentially benefit you, that was my point.

And if that whole blocking in thing doesn't bother you or your neighbour then I'm surprised, its contrary to the internet personae you've established.

[Jaspersharpe]

Char these cunts are obviously profiteering. It's very simple and obvious by the ridiculous charges Paul has mentioned. If they were acting in the interests of anyone other than themselves then the disgraceful, small print loaded, complex and overly, intentionally fuckupable chances of getting a large fine would not be in place.

I don't think the charges, as described, are legal/enforceable anyway but I'm not a solicitor.

Sloper!

Internet personae notwithstanding.

[Paul B]

All this extra info just renders past replies irrelevant. Your situation is nothing like mine.

No what it does is render your presuppositions incorrect.

Generally you seemed to be moaning about a system you willingly bought into and something that could potentially benefit you, that was my point.

I didn't willingly buy into this system as it wasn't in place when I bought the property. If I was unhappy with maintenance/costs etc. that would be a different story. However as it is I'm not in the "lets take it up the arse" mentality and so will question policy I'm unhappy with.

Internet persona? I think what you're missing here is that a lot of people on this site know me fairly well and will point out in person if I've stepped out of line or was just plain wrong. A few times I've screwed up and upset people on here but the main instance of that I can think of was cleared up in person in a matter of seconds. You might note that JB and I have had some flaming rows on here re: Training. Funny thing is over a pint of beer its all jokes.

And if that whole blocking in thing doesn't bother you or your neighbour then I'm surprised, its contrary to the internet personae you've established.

Again you chose to ignore my response. I'll sum it up for you; that way I don't inconvenience any of my neighbours, don't leave a wussy note on their windscreen, don't have to park over the road and pay for the privilege and nobody gets an 80 quid fine. I see it as win win all round.

[account_inactive]

I'm even more dour in real life

[cowboyhat]

Ok you're right Paul, be as angry as you want about it all.

I didn't read all of your penultimate post, the whole argument/Percy bit, either that or its been edited. So I did ignore your response. I can see how my last post would seem like I was just winding you up further.

And I only skimmed the detail of the whole parking thing anyway. My original post was ill judged, I jumped to a conclusion which was unhelpful and facetious. Its useless being flippant with someone I don't know. I apologise for being unhelpful and (potentially) ruining your thread, making assumptions and presuppositions.

I stand by my opinion of Paul B on the web though; which whilst it is probably why I responded in the first place, is a separate issue to parking.

Is this me being a troll? The real life rude patronising cunt accidentally spilled onto the web. This is exactly like one of those threads that always annoys me, people picking arguments for the sake of it. Three bottles of Brakspear Triple. I could delete all my posts or let this whole argument serve as a reminder not to

[Paul B]

Lets not sweat it. Now where the hell is lord Sloper?

[Jim]

Can you not simply request an additional parking permit and some guest permits?

Failing that just leave a note in the other/guests cars saying 'its my space, i can put whatever car i want here now fuck off you cunts!'

[clm]

Dense has got wireless broadband in his room now. I doubt he'll ever bother you again.

Unless you become an optician, of course, the rate he's going he'll be blind by christmas.

I doubt that anyone will see him again...ever

[Paul B]

Can you not simply request an additional parking permit and some guest permits?

Failing that just leave a note in the other/guests cars saying 'its my space, i can put whatever car i want here now fuck off you cunts!'

nope, only one permit per bay. Guest permits not available for "general visitors". Only for emergencies and contractors.

[Sloper]

I was out onsighting Nik's Wall, well I walked up to it without even looking at the guide, can I claim 7a for that?

PS there's a fair bit of chalk on the holds.

Paul,

Not wholly my area but pm me and we'll perhaps have a chat tuesday, I presume you still have my number.

[dave]

if you own the space, and you employ and pay the wages of the people running the parking then you should be calling the shots. I wouldn't have thought they should be able to bring in new policies without the sayso of residents.

[Paul B]

as sloper pointed out its leasehold so its not quite that straightforward. There isn't anything in the lease regarding this kind of thing though it only says I can't park a rusty shit heap in there or abandon a car in there or park a truck etc.

[shark]

I'm even more dour in real life

Not true

[Paul B]

Not that I think its likely but if anyone is ever stuck in a similar situation the leaseholder advisory service seems ok and is free. They'll review your lease and advise you on anything to do with it.

Currently they have all of the details. Whilst each day I get a new person from the management company ringing to tell me there is no visitor parking 

Turns out the company in question uses Trespass laws to fine you. Its surely going to be extremely hard for them to convince anyone that I have tresspassed on a piece of land to which I own the lease (they obviously didn't read the lords prayer very well).

[Johnny Brown]

It may be a myth, but I thought you couldn't be prosecuted just for trespass? Unless you cause damage, in which case they then do you for that.

[Paul B]

No its a myth, they're allowed to recoup reasonable losses which shouldn't be too hard for them to do....

[Johnny Brown]

In England and Wales, while one can easily run into a notice warning that "trespassers will be prosecuted," it will only bring a civil liability, unless the trespass is aggravated.

Sloper?

[Sloper]

Utter bollox, I think that there's still an offence under the vagrancy act of 1874 of being found in enclosed premises as a trespasser.

As for them being able to issue a fine, as I recall only Courts can issue fines.

Sure they could bring proceedings, it would be small claims track so they'd get fucked for costs, I'd be tempted to call their bluff and argue that they're seeking to interfere with easments over your property viz a viz access (note I'm really not a property lawyer).

Have you had a response from the management committee etc yet?

[Paul B]

yes thats why they're not technically fines but invoices. According to the pepipoo forums they're notouriously bad at selecting their words until the final letter where everything switches to "invoices" and "debt".

Yes the management company did get back to me. Ignoring all the points I made, not pointing out which part of the lease allows them to do it and generally ignoring me all together. I pointed this out to the lady who rang back 30 mins later and did the same again. Then she told me to write, I'd guess so they can waste more of my time then ignore that as well?

I've had what I believe to be a bit of a breakthrough:

If a parking bay is allocated:
7. The right to exclusive use of the parking space for the purpose of parking a private motor vehicle not exceeding 3 tonnes gross laden weight

Pepipoo (as suggested by SA Chris) is proving useful, I think I'll have a stonker of a letter (for them to ignore) soon.

[Jim]

keep your letters short and sweet. they are far more likely to read it than a multi page essay

[Sloper]

On what basis can they invoice?  You can't just send folk an invoice and the call it a debt if they don't pay.

Are you a shareholder in the management company?  It is quite common for each leaseholder has one share in the company and therefore allow them to act in the management and direction of the same.

What are the arranagements re management and control, is there an AGM, can you arrange for enough people to call an EGM and get them to change their policy.

What's the name of the management company?

[Jaspersharpe]

On what basis can they invoice?  You can't just send folk an invoice and the call it a debt if they don't pay.

Plenty do that though just to try it on and plenty of people pay up.

[Paul B]

On what basis can they invoice?  You can't just send folk an invoice and the call it a debt if they don't pay.

Are you a shareholder in the management company?  It is quite common for each leaseholder has one share in the company and therefore allow them to act in the management and direction of the same.

What are the arranagements re management and control, is there an AGM, can you arrange for enough people to call an EGM and get them to change their policy.

What's the name of the management company?

Thats what they do though slopes.

No I'm not a shareholder. There are no meetings that I've ever been informed about nor is there a residents committee. Its not the most sociable of developments to put it politely.

[Sloper]

Well how about writing to them inviting them to instruct their solicitors?

PS who are these see you next tuesday s?

[Paul B]

oh its Peverel OM now OM Property Management...

[Sloper]

Make a complaint to these morons.

http://www.arma.org.uk/

[Paul B]

Make a complaint to these morons.

http://www.arma.org.uk/

they said its interpretation and can't take on a complaint until I have been advised as to that interpretation by the leaseholders advisory service.

[Paul B]

haha my day keeps on getting better:

They're sending me a secondary pass. (Like I asked for in the first instance but never mind).

I was going to go to the works this evening but as the good fortune can't continue I may not.

[slackline]

Could have used it for parking the VW Camper instead of selling it.

[Paul B]

still only one space...

(that was below the belt)