[fatdoc]

As far as I know / remember this is for the bottom of the Devils elbow...boggy as hell. could do with a bit of work..

If not...interesting quandary for me (yes I know MTB is a small user group & I'm perhaps being narrow sighted)...as the works done over the last few years there have indeed made sustainable, well drained and boring as f*ck trails to ride. even I can get up them on a 32Lb dual ring 5 inch travel full susser..and they are not what one would call challange on the downs either..

same old same old with regards to the upcoming Lescar mtg, hence this post..
 
dunno whether to support..
 

Dear friends, members, colleagues, and partners,
We need your help!
TheAssociation for Conservationhas been asked byTrail magazineto identify 6 projects in upland areas that Trail readers can vote for. The project with the most votes will be supported with a grant from AfC of up toEUR30,000.
The Wildlife Trustsput forwardSheffield Wildlife Trust's Blacka Moor access project, and happily, we were chosen for the final vote.
The Project in brief:
TheWildlife Trust for Sheffield and Rotherhamurgently needs to undertake improvements to a key bridleway atBlacka Moor Nature Reservecreating a sympathetically constructed surface using local stone and with appropriate drainage. This will prevent further erosion and damage to the fragile woodland ground flora caused by visitor usage.
If this project were successful in achieving funding, readers will help:
•To significantly reduce future damage and erosion to the fragile woodland flora at Blacka Moor.
•A wide range of people and local volunteers to gain skills in footpath construction, teamwork and learn more about the site’s ecology.
•The Wildlife Trusts achieve their vision of A Living Landscape.
Now we need your help to win: simply follow the link below, take two minutes to register, and cast your vote.
Voting will start on 25thJanuary and finishes on 2ndFeb
Here is a link to our entry:http://www.livefortheoutdoors.com/News-Landing/Search-Results/Features/Choose-the-most-worthwhile-eco-project-Entry-One---The-Wildlife-Trusts/
Thank you for taking the time to vote. Please forward this email to friends and colleagues you think would be glad to help.
Fingers crossed!

[cofe]

there's a pic of Roy Muesli on that site!

[john horscroft]

It's a toughie this, but I had an interesting chat with the Sheffield Wildlife Trust warden, Brendan, the other day. 

The plan for the mucky bottom of Devil's Elbow is not to create a single wide track but a couple of narrow, all weather, all season trails winding through pretty much as they do now.  On the whole, I reckon that would improve the situation for MBers.

Improvement of the new bridlepath from Stoney Ridge car park - from the car park to the little bridge, single wide path.  Beyond the bridge, bridleway and footpath will split.  New bridlepath will be wide but the aim is to make it as sinuous as possible with the help of a guy who's been involved with trail building in Scotland.  This one is a bit more of a quandary.........

[fatdoc]

where will the narrow, flowing and twisty ( sustainable ) new footpath go 

[john horscroft]

where will the narrow, flowing and twisty ( sustainable ) new footpath go 

Cheers FD, just given me an idea.  Since I haven't the faintest about the new footpath, I'll ask Brendan for more details so I can brief the Sheffield Riders Group properly instead of adding to the chinese whispers......

[Norton Sharley]

FFS, do walkers not own wellies these days.  If its too wet to walk or ride on then go and walk/ride somewhere else.  How can you have wilderness if some idiots pave the place?  Leave the trails alone.

[fatkid2000]

FFS, do walkers not own wellies these days.  If its too wet to walk or ride on then go and walk/ride somewhere else.  How can you have wilderness if some idiots pave the place?  Leave the trails alone.

AKA access for fat lazy chavs or the posh lot from Dore who don't want to get their designer wellies wet!

[john horscroft]

   Not sure I agree chaps.  Devil's Elbow is a great trail that ends up in a bog.  What's wrong with upgrading the path so we can use it all year?  Not exactly making inroads into some last great wilderness is it? 

[fatdoc]

if the rocks and roots bit before the bog is smoothed over i'll sculpt it back... or put concrete reinforced jumps in it. there is no f8ckin way that will be smoothed over and left unadulterated. easy road access for materials / not too busy...zero chance being caught at 6 in the morning.

you can moot this at the meeting.

its the only real legal challange left near the city...it must be kept so


as for the bog..fair go.. I'll help sort it and dig /work as others see fit

[hairich]

i will help with digging if it can be done on a sun or mon

[Johnny Brown]

Not exactly making inroads into some last great wilderness is it? 

Maybe not, but is it not part of the Eastern moors SSSI?

[Norton Sharley]

  Not sure I agree chaps.  Devil's Elbow is a great trail that ends up in a bog.  What's wrong with upgrading the path so we can use it all year?  Not exactly making inroads into some last great wilderness is it?

Because if you 'upgrade' the bottom boggy section then people will use it all year and the top will become trashed and unuseable. 

Devil's elbow is one of the best natural trails in/around the Peak.  People have even been known to travel from France to ride it (see WMB Jan '10).   I admit that the bog is a bit of a nasty cold muddy challenge but the last corner where it turns from fast rocks and roots to all out bog is one of the most entertaining and challenging bits of trail I have ever ridden. 

If our natural trails are to be reduced to the lowest common denominator then we might all as well just pack up and head to the trail centres now.

[john horscroft]

if the rocks and roots bit before the bog is smoothed over i'll sculpt it back... or put concrete reinforced jumps in it. there is no f8ckin way that will be smoothed over and left unadulterated. easy road access for materials / not too busy...zero chance being caught at 6 in the morning.

you can moot this at the meeting.

its the only real legal challange left near the city...it must be kept so

as for the bog..fair go.. I'll help sort it and dig /work as others see fit

Only the boggy bits fatdoc, no work further up.

[john horscroft]

Not exactly making inroads into some last great wilderness is it? 

Maybe not, but is it not part of the Eastern moors SSSI?

Sure is.  Your point?

[Johnny Brown]

Just in light of the Houndkirk thread... this sounds like a good project though.

[cofe]

tricky one this one, as it's often boggy even in summer. 'upkeep' is one thing, i just worry when the city council might be involved, or non-riders.

[john horscroft]

Tricky it is.  I started off with one opinion, as usual, but thanks to some thought provoking posts, now I'm not quite so sure.

Norton's point about increasing traffic is a good one.  Devil's Elbow is suffering already thanks to increasing traffic as it becomes more widely known, (thanks a bunch WMB!).  I'm not sure if leaving the bottom bit boggy puts people off.  If they've travelled miles to ride it, they'll ride it.  The increasing use by guys on DH bikes using uplift is a problem too, but I don't see any ready solution to that.  I think we inevitable have to accept that SWT are going to do some remedial work and it's better we're on the inside pissing out than on the outside pissing in.........

[john horscroft]

All in all, this thread demonstrates why we need the Sheffield Riders Group initiative to work......

[Dolly]

I know I'm a bit late on this topic, but on reflection I agree with Norton.
I think the trail should be left as it is for the reasons he suggests.
Isn't it part of the reward of riding it when its dryish that you know it doesn't happen that often ?

Its a bit like getting the perfect grit conditions that you need for a problem or when the cornice dries out or the river that normally runs down a mountain crag has dried out and you can do your route.  In other words its just taking it as it is without imposing a consumer culture " I have a right to ride this trail in good nick whenever I want to" approach

I'm not having a go BTW FD just trying to present a different point of view

[john horscroft]

Looking at this thread again, I think we're probably ignoring the fact that the decision is largely out of our hands.  SWT will decide what happens and when.  However, we do have a chance to influence that decision by going to the Blackamoor Advisory Group meetings.  Otherwise guys, we're just sounding off..........

[fatdoc]

hmmm.

link above not active till the 27th now..

I mean it about the concrete / fence post mix re-enforced jumps btw...

[john horscroft]

I've just had an email from Brendon, the SWT warden for Blacka and this bit caught my eye:

"If we win this money we will not be so constrained by the Public Rights of Way department and so will be able to undertake works sensitive and suitable for mountain bikers to make the route a sustainable, and enjoyable, trail all year round."

Which means he won't have to listen to the dreaded Rights of Way officer Mick Hanson any more, no more 2 metre wide bridlepaths hard tops etc etc.

Worth a vote now?

[fatdoc]

fuckin good effort John.

I'll help out.

I will reserve my concrete jumps for my more secret trails.

Dolly, can you actually ride this trail? 

[Dolly]

Dolly, can you actually ride this trail? 

(rises to bait) you cheeky fucker FD

I cleaned it on my hardtail FWIW

[nomorespam2009@live.co.uk]

This thread has been reported to the authorities as it encourages damage of SSSIs.