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'Prehab' exercises (Read 6835 times)

Rocksteady

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'Prehab' exercises
January 12, 2010, 11:47:06 am
So after reading the thread on antagonist exercises with interest, I was wondering whether it's worth incorporating 'prehab' exercises into my routine. I've read about these used for other sport .

What I'm talking about is any exercises that are likely to keep your posture good, ensure you minimise muscular imbalances, and generally reduce the likelihood of 'overuse' injuries.

I know Horst is generally seen as a bit old school/wrong, but I was wondering whether his reverse wrist curls etc are worthwhile as an exercise to keep the antagonistic/synergistic muscles on the back of the forearm strong and prevent incidence of elbow tendonitis/tendonosis. Although whenever I've tried them I seem to get a burning ache that feels like it is bad news, rather than the sort of pump/tiredness I'd expect from light weights.

I do exercises for my rhomboids like bent over lat raises and bent over rows to hopefully keep that section of my back strong and prevent my posture getting worse, but does anyone recommend any shoulder/forearm/core exercises as worthwhile to keep the average climber healthy?

Or is this stuff all so specific to the individual that it's impossible to prescribe a general course of prehab exercises?

Await replies with interest (this is better than work)...







guru

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#1 Re: 'Prehab' exercises
January 12, 2010, 12:20:52 pm
thank you rocksteady,
you inspired me to make a short vid on this topic!

just for answer.. i think the most important ones are shoulder extraroting muscles.. but everyone needs a personal workout. posture (i have a master on posturology) is a metter of "muscle tone" which is induced by many many "inputs".. and among those rock climbing training (years of intense training) is one... but not the only one. i doubt that working on antagonistic muscle strength will induce a "realignment" of posture.. simply beacause you don't work on STF = "tone" but on FTF. in other words, doing the classical reps, you don't work in the field of posture that means a more "fine" work on the same muscles. in fact posture is ever involuntary.

Krank

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#2 Re: 'Prehab' exercises
January 12, 2010, 12:39:34 pm
This year i have introduced an antagonist circuit training thing as a warm up before all my training sessions. It serves as a good warm up and doesnt seem like doing crap antagonist exercises instead of climbing.
I have no SCIENCE as to whether it works but my elbows are non tweaky this year, however last year they felt nasty for the whole season. The circuit consists of dips, different types of pressups, wrist curls, wrist lowering things, hammer curls, lat pull downs. hope that helps

Caesar Power

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#3 Re: 'Prehab' exercises
January 12, 2010, 02:01:26 pm
I'd recommend some 'good luck' rotator cuff exercises as a warm up.
I've also learnt from these forums that it's not specific exercises that help your posture, but maintaining good posture during any exercise that help your postural muscles the most.

Rocksteady

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#4 Re: 'Prehab' exercises
January 12, 2010, 02:50:08 pm
Interesting. Thanks for your replies so far guys.

The guru is obviously well-placed to help and I look forward to his vid on the topic!
It increasingly seems to me that postural problems cause perhaps all sports injuries (that aren't caused by impact). My back often plays me up (took up climbing after I stopped doing mixed martial arts when it ruined my back) but I've been told that my back problems arise primarily from bad posture and consequently inhibited movement patterns. But looking at posture as the centre link to a chain that radiates outwards to all limbs, I suspect that even forearm/elbow problems may have their origins in posture and movement patterns.

I generally do quite a lot of press ups and try to stretch pecs and forearms, but suspect that a comprehensive prehab approach is, as the guru suggested, personal to each individual. To see a physio before even getting injured to try to reduce likelihood I guess is the best option - though very expensive, probably limited to professional sportspeople.

That said, antagonist and core exercises and stretching probably worth incorporating into a training regime as 'prehab'. Just in case.

Johnny Brown

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#5 Re: 'Prehab' exercises
January 12, 2010, 06:10:56 pm
Yoga - works the antagonists, improves your posture. Back of the net.

guru

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#6 Re: 'Prehab' exercises
January 12, 2010, 11:14:26 pm
i suspect that many of us had tried lots of different ways and had success.
so it's all good if it's smart.

yes, everything is connected.. by connective tissue! so for this reason (but not only for this) the symtoms can be away from the cause(s).

one for the rotator cuff exercises: if the "extra" are weak maybe is not smart to fatigue them before a session.. better the rest day. why? because they work helping the shoulder against the efforts in every movement of your arms.. so the more are weak the less they can control the articular movement. working on them before a session (working hard in oder to train them) means that they will work in a non-freshness condition, so they are doubly weak from the beginning.

that said.. many techinques seems to be good.. but when a problem come, must be approached in a global way, taking in consideration your personal hystory, your posture, your past traumas, your symptoms, your pains, your muscle balance, your articular disfunctions.. and so on... this is the only way i know to understand and treat a problem.

Rocksteady

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#7 Re: 'Prehab' exercises
January 14, 2010, 02:58:14 pm
Very interesting, thanks for the thoughts all.

The Sausage

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#8 Re: 'Prehab' exercises
January 14, 2010, 09:30:49 pm
I do exercises for my rhomboids

Rhomboids aren't postural muscles, in fact over-reliance on them will be detrimental to your proper scapula stabilisers - serratus anterior, mid/lower traps. They can't control the medial border of your scapula (the one closest to your spine) when your arm is in an overhead position, which leads to scapula winging.

As the so called guru says (did he (she?) give themselves that title?), postural muscles need to work at very low amplitudes - inherently they don't move limbs, so exercises are about control, not movement.

I think this is pretty well outlined in the 'antaganistc basics' topic.

guru

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#9 Re: 'Prehab' exercises
January 15, 2010, 12:08:18 am
... far to be a guru, it's just for fun..
and far to call myself "guru"..
guru is simply a funny word!
i'm a guy.

oh, yeah why guru? don't know, maybe ask to Nibile..

Nibile

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#10 Re: 'Prehab' exercises
January 15, 2010, 09:50:22 am
eh!
i nicknamed roberto"the guru", because i used to panic about my many climbing weaknesses and i would write him many emails asking to improve this and that (usually opposite qualities).
he always answered and planned my training, and so i worship his patience and knowledge!

Rocksteady

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#11 Re: 'Prehab' exercises
January 15, 2010, 02:08:28 pm
I do exercises for my rhomboids

Rhomboids aren't postural muscles, in fact over-reliance on them will be detrimental to your proper scapula stabilisers - serratus anterior, mid/lower traps. They can't control the medial border of your scapula (the one closest to your spine) when your arm is in an overhead position, which leads to scapula winging.

As the so called guru says (did he (she?) give themselves that title?), postural muscles need to work at very low amplitudes - inherently they don't move limbs, so exercises are about control, not movement.

I think this is pretty well outlined in the 'antaganistc basics' topic.

Thanks for the input. The reason I started another thread spinning out of the 'antagonistics basics' was that although there was a lot of information, I couldn't see any concrete exercises recommended that climbers could do as 'insurance' against injury.

I wondered if it was all so specific to each person that any blanket policy of antagonistic exercises is actually a waste of time, and each person essentially needs to see a physio to get exercises to address their own imbalances.

The exercises I do for my shoulders/upper back are very slow, very light dumbell lat raises, bent over at the waist as I'd read somewhere (maybe Horst!) that these were good for working the rotator cuffs/postural muscles of the shoulder. When I perform them I pay particular attention to keeping my shoulders in a 'pulled down' position - I do this when doing pull ups or one armers also as I've read that the 'pulling shoulders down feeling' activates the stabilisation muscles.

But it all seems very much more complex than that. Essentially I love climbing, but don't like the idea that it's going to ruin my shoulders, elbows, fingers etc etc. I'd like to do exercises that minimise the chances of ruination. But it seems like that's impossible! Pursuing pleasures leads to pain?

 :wall:  :shrug:




guru

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#12 Re: 'Prehab' exercises
January 15, 2010, 10:22:51 pm
ONE FOR THE POSTURAL MUSCLES:

can we call a single muscle as postural or non postural? yes and no.
everything is connected, so firstly is better speaking about muscular chains.
there are some from the head to the feet or viceversa.
working on a single muscle without considering all the chain where this muscle is, is not properly correct.
as some muscles have their anthagonists, we have for example an extension chian vs flexion and opening chain vs closing.

we suppose that the closing chain (pect, dorso, abs, biceps, finger flexors) is stronger than the opening in climbers, so, for a postural work we have to train the all opening chain in a single effort insted of single muscles each time.

it is said that a static work is better than a concentric/eccentric one.

that said, every single muscle is a postural but in many case we can't point the finger only to it!


 

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