[Barratt]

What do people use for a training diary - PC, t'nterweb, phone or scraps of paper???

I've previously used UKC but would like to customize specifically for my needs.

[erm, sam]

I used to use a home made exel sheet, but now I just write it on bits of paper. Can't be bothered with pretending I won't be injured by back/finger/shoulder enough to make a proper log worth more than, er, log.

[webbo]

training diary.funnily enough i use a diary, one of those things made of paper.

[Serpico]

I haven't kept my training diary updated for months, but after using paper diaries for years I finally switched to Outlook as it integrates with my work diary, and makes it easier to see at a glance how much and what I've been doing over a greater time scale. For keeping track of individual exercises/drills I still use paper as this needs to be portable.

[Jim]

Training diary!?!!
as if training wasn't boring enough already

[Serpico]

Keeping a log of your training doesn't make it any more or less boring - it's just a few seconds extra work that ultimately makes your training more effective if used properly.

[chris j]

Intermittently when I remember I use Polar ProTrainer 5 software, came with my heart monitor. So best for running, cycling, rowing etc but swimming & climbing etc go in as additional exercises with a note on what I've done.

[Nizza]

I use my Ical, to get an overall view of what I' doing when. Each entry has a breakdown with what I'll do and then I have a book with me which I write it down in when training so as to keep a daily log.  I then write this up in the relevant Ical entry.   

[Will Hunt]

Depot Monday & Friday. Leeds Wall Wednesday. Its that simple.

Close to Spain notch up the stamina work at the Leeds Wall.

[robertostallioni]

Adie B provided us with a wonderful spreadsheet in Excel, which cannot be posted as
A) I'm inept
B) not my property, as such

i also use a tweaked version of this, which I found on'tweb.

Klimb

[Serpico]

i also use a tweaked version of this, which I found on'tweb.

Klimb

I forgot about Klimb, I used to use that but ultimately wanted something with a calendar view. I'm interested in what tweaks you made to it, it had a lot of bugs so I taught myself a bit of Java and tweaked mine to fix some of the bugs and add font grades.
I can let you have a copy of my tweaked versions, being Java they'll run in parallel to your version and use the same database.

[robertostallioni]

My tweaks were of the exercises basically, as those listed were simply not right for me. The hardest bit was getting the fucker to work in the first place.

[csurfleet]

(First post - Hi!)

Been lurking a while but this is interesting me.

I'm in the middle (well, beginning really) of developing an app to replace Klimb which I thought doesn't work well for logging fingerboard workouts or reviewing data. What sort of features would people be interested in?
- Prefer web interface or a windows app
- Is it important to have mobile versions?
- Want it to interface with devices such as heart rate monitors etc?
- How would you see the fingerboard logging working? At the moment it won't log if you are using a different hold with each hand (i.e. The large central slot to assist hanging the 45s on the beastmaker) which I realised recently might need sorting?
- How do you like to review your training?

This is a long-term free time project for me so I'm not expecting to have anything finished for the best part of a year, but I'll be after some of you training monsters to beta test if anyones up for it

Ta muchly

[Falling Down]

Hi,

Great - I hope you get it done.

An iPhone version would be great that synched with a web application.
No need to synch with an HRM.
For a fingerboard, it wouldn't bother me to not have the holds described at the field level, more the ability to record all the nuances of the exercises themselves.

[Luthor]

Recently discovered that the UKC diary allows some customisation, you can edit / add activites, e.g. fingerboard, campusing, injured...

[clgladiator]

If possible i'd be interested in the tweaks people made to Klimb, just downloaded it and looks pretty good but stuff like font grades would be a massive improvement!

[slackline]

(First post - Hi!)

Been lurking a while but this is interesting me.

Welcome 

I'm in the middle (well, beginning really) of developing an app to replace Klimb which I thought doesn't work well for logging fingerboard workouts or reviewing data. What sort of features would people be interested in?
- Prefer web interface or a windows app

Platform neutral is the way forward, but avoid Java 'cause its clunky.

- Is it important to have mobile versions?

Would be a very handy feature, thus, having it running on the web would be the optimal solution so smart phone users can add things as they're resting between reps etc.

- Want it to interface with devices such as heart rate monitors etc?

Long term it would be a great feature, but less important at the outset (but worth bearing in mind in the database design at the outset).  How many people actually monitor their heart rate, or if they do, do so with a machine that can be plugged into a computer?  (Wait, someone's going to tell me theres an iPhone app for it 

- How would you see the fingerboard logging working? At the moment it won't log if you are using a different hold with each hand (i.e. The large central slot to assist hanging the 45s on the beastmaker) which I realised recently might need sorting?

Some method of having left and right hand holds denoted separately would therefore make sense.  Perhaps not focusing on just the beast-maker might be good, or having the option to specify what fingerboard you do have (with the db having the holds stored so that they then load up).

- How do you like to review your training?

Raw data for me (as I'd then analyse it myself).

Generally though graphs are a good thing, but can be abused and ruin information.  There's a really good book on graphs and presenting information called Tufte E The Visual Display of Quantitative Information.

Avoid pie-charts : the human eye/mind isn't good at measuring and comparing angles/radians, and two adjacent slices very close in size are hard to distinguish.

Never use 3-D graphs : Adding a third dimension adds nothing to the information content and often obscures the information that is being conveyed and even worse can distort it (the obvious caveat being when you do actually have three variables, x, y and z that you want to plot).

Label things : sounds obvious, but having clearly labelled axes and scales are very important.

The ability to export the raw data to say CSV would also be very useful.

If you want some software for drawing some rather nice graphs then check out R (R Graph Gallery).  R can interface smoothly with SQL (or any ODBC connected db), and has some very nice ways of generating results tables and figures in a number of formats and is pretty quick.

[csurfleet]

Thanks for the input

Web app was the way I was leaning, good to have that confirmed. I'm a .net developer by trade so platform independence is easier using the web. I've done almost nothing with the interface yet, I'm just manually entering all my training data into an evolving database and messing with some API code.

Mobile access is also easier that way, but would anyone actually enter data that way as they train? I know I don't want my sweaty, chalky hands anywhere near my sexy Pre!

I'll quickly describe how I've set up the fingerboard data and how I'd see it working in the app. That will be the first bit to get sorted properly and so it is the most developed in my head.

A fingerboard set is set up as a number of reps, with hang time and rest time. The hold on the fingerboard and the fingers used are also specified. Then there is the extra stuff for one armed, extra/less weight and encores. This way you can effectively record:

'7 rep repeater at 7on, 3off with middle 2 on the deep pockets and 5k removed' and measure progress.

I'm going to tweak the db to allow different holds for each hand.

I've got it set up with the beastmaker2k at the moment but holds for other boards can be added easily, just developing with what I've got.

This format allows for anything to be recorded, as eg a maximal hang is just a single rep set.

All this flexibility means the interface will have to be carefully designed for stuff to be entered easily. Stuff like being able to copy a previous workout and tweak it should help.

Falling down: Could you give me an example of how you'd ideally enter stuff? As it seems fairly different to the very specific method above, but hopefully its something that could be solved with an alternatve view on the workout entry.

Phew, with this being public now I should probably get on with it!

[Munkii]

i just use an excercise book.

it gets batterd pretty quickly though.

[Bolderer]

I use iCal but obviously I don't take my computer in the chalkdust-filled gym so I end up with little scraps of paper all over the place...maybe I should invest in a spiral-bound notebook or something.

[Serpico]

- Prefer web interface or a windows app

My personal preference would be for a windows app - it knocks some of the smugness out of Mac users when they can't get Mac versions.

- Is it important to have mobile versions?

Not a mobile version as such - I think it would be too difficult to review data on a small screen, but being able to sync with a mobile device would be good. I think the best/easiest compromise would be to be able to import/export Excel data, so you could have a spreadsheet of your previous gym routine on Excel mobile which you'd update at the gym and then import/sync with the master program on your home PC.

- Want it to interface with devices such as heart rate monitors etc?

Not for me.

- How would you see the fingerboard logging working? At the moment it won't log if you are using a different hold with each hand (i.e. The large central slot to assist hanging the 45s on the beastmaker) which I realised recently might need sorting?

I've always logged these using Duration*Intensity*Repetitions*Interval*Rest for each set. The hold, grip type or combination is either part of the exercise description or in the notes for the exercise.

- How do you like to review your training?

I think there are four elements to this:
Planning.
This is used to schedule workouts so that your training follows a periodized plan, probably best as part of a calendar view. This could involve producing a workout schedule with columns for what you aimed to achieve for a particular session and what you actually achieved.

Maintenance.
This is the daily view which shows what you did/will do on a given day.

Review.
I think this would be covered by the calendar view as per planning. The ideal would be to be able to quickly see how much of what you've done in a given period, so if you look at my Outlook planner above; endurance work is in green, strength/power purple and conditioning in red.

Analysis.
This is where you want to be able to plot performance/injury against training/body weight, so the facility to view any 2 or more graphs generated from training/performance logs against each other for the same time period.

[slackline]

- Prefer web interface or a windows app

My personal preference would be for a windows app - it knocks some of the smugness out of Mac users when they can't get Mac versions.

[/quote]


Things should be made as universal and platform neutral as possible.

- Is it important to have mobile versions?

Not a mobile version as such - I think it would be too difficult to review data on a small screen, but being able to sync with a mobile device would be good. I think the best/easiest compromise would be to be able to import/export Excel data, so you could have a spreadsheet of your previous gym routine on Excel mobile which you'd update at the gym and then import/sync with the master program on your home PC.

Fine until M$ decide to change the proprietrary code that underlies the Excel format, best of sticking to ASCII plain text for transferring between different systems (export as CSV from Excel, db's can read this fine).

- How do you like to review your training?

I think there are four elements to this:
Planning.
This is used to schedule workouts so that your training follows a periodized plan, probably best as part of a calendar view. This could involve producing a workout schedule with columns for what you aimed to achieve for a particular session and what you actually achieved.

Maintenance.
This is the daily view which shows what you did/will do on a given day.

Review.
I think this would be covered by the calendar view as per planning. The ideal would be to be able to quickly see how much of what you've done in a given period, so if you look at my Outlook planner above; endurance work is in green, strength/power purple and conditioning in red.

Analysis.
This is where you want to be able to plot performance/injury against training/body weight, so the facility to view any 2 or more graphs generated from training/performance logs against each other for the same time period.

Good break-down, hadn't thought about the different points at which people want to look at stuff.

[Monolith]

Adie B provided us with a wonderful spreadsheet in Excel, which cannot be posted as
A) I'm inept
B) not my property, as such

i also use a tweaked version of this, which I found on'tweb.

Klimb

Just installed this stallioni. When you say tweaked, have you geeked with the sourcecode? It looks useful from first glance but not altogether super clear how to use it. I'll press on anyway. Good idea.

[Serpico]

If possible i'd be interested in the tweaks people made to Klimb, just downloaded it and looks pretty good but stuff like font grades would be a massive improvement!

PM your email and I'll send you my version which should work straight from the desktop with the original database.

[clgladiator]

youv'e got mail 

[Serpico]

(First post - Hi!)

Been lurking a while but this is interesting me.

I'm in the middle (well, beginning really) of developing an app to replace Klimb which I thought doesn't work well for logging fingerboard workouts or reviewing data. What sort of features would people be interested in?
- Prefer web interface or a windows app
- Is it important to have mobile versions?
- Want it to interface with devices such as heart rate monitors etc?
- How would you see the fingerboard logging working? At the moment it won't log if you are using a different hold with each hand (i.e. The large central slot to assist hanging the 45s on the beastmaker) which I realised recently might need sorting?
- How do you like to review your training?

This is a long-term free time project for me so I'm not expecting to have anything finished for the best part of a year, but I'll be after some of you training monsters to beta test if anyones up for it

Ta muchly

So, over a year on, how's it going?

[csurfleet]

Not as well as I'd have hoped, but I keep having a play every couple of weeks. One weekend soon I'm going to sit down and hammer out a full 2 days of effort on it, which should get it to an initial beta state people can look at.

Watch this space, and I'll consider myself  ed! 

[Pebblespanker]

UKC for the virtual version, updated when at work as mentioned above mine's customised and whilst not ideal I don't have the time to develop an Excel spreadsheet with VBA type coding - working in IT does that to you

Big fat page a day diary for when I am actually working out at home on the board or down t'wall so I remember the probs I did and notes on possible weaknesses (lots) so I don't forget - old age kicking in ... diary also good when you have had a bad day at the wall/board so you can look back and see how far you have progressed which is usually a positive boost

[Serpico]

Not as well as I'd have hoped, but I keep having a play every couple of weeks. One weekend soon I'm going to sit down and hammer out a full 2 days of effort on it, which should get it to an initial beta state people can look at.

Watch this space, and I'll consider myself  ed! 

Forgot to reply...
Good work on keeping with it, after the initial thread I was inspired to do some mods to Klimb. I've recently done some programming copy and paste butchering and have actually got it to a state where it's actually starting to get quite useful. Unfortunately there's just too much stuff that I don't know how to do.
At some point I'm going to upload it all to the Wiki (breath holding not advised).

[csurfleet]

I'd be interested to take a look at that, always need good ideas to steal! I'll do a couple of late nights in the office next week and see if I can't get something to look at, even if its only a couple of screenshots for people to critique.

[Serpico]

You've got the original Klimb?
I've tweaked the grade equivalence and added font and UK tech grades, added distance to the Cardio page, and Body fat% to the vitals page, added a resting heart rate and sleep quality page, and added duration to the workout log. The most useful thing I've found that can't just be done with pen and paper is add this page, which lets you see what you've done over a month and compare it to the same month last year, and see your year's total volume and compare it to the same point 12months previous.
At some point I'll upload it all to the wiki with some instructions, and possibly my tweaked version of the source code.


klimb shot for UKB

[csurfleet]

Cool, it should be simple to add stuff like that to the reporting side. At the moment everything I've done is designed to record fingerboard workouts but the climb recording stuff should mirror Klimb fairly closely.

Priority should be providing tools not currently available, so I've totally ignored stuff like weights workouts, cardio etc as other tools already do them better than I could ever hope to (mapmyride etc) but I'll look at adding them on at a later date.

In order of priority I'm looking at:
- Fingerboard workout data entry and browsing (so a diary page which will link the climbs/wieghts/cardio etc in later) - 70% done
- Vitals recording (weight/BMI/fat% etc)
- Fingerboard workout reporting
- Climbs data entry and import (allowing imports from the UKC logbook downloads to speed things up)
- Reporting
- Weights and cardio stuff

So Klimb will still be relevant for the foreseeable future. I'll make the effort to provide an import feature from Klimb if I can figure it too eventually.

[Serpico]

At some point I'll upload it all to the wiki ...

No I won't:

Upload warning
".jar" is not a permitted file type.

[csurfleet]

I could stick it in dropbox if you email me the zip?

[Serpico]

Cool, msg me your email.

[slackline]

You could grab an account yourself, they have 2Gb account free

[Serpico]

I'd not heard of it before, the reviews seem good.

[Serpico]

Right, installed it. There was a message during the install that said "Synchronizing your bank details with LagerStarfish industries", which I presume is normal?

I've dropped the tweaked version of Klimb in there for anyone who already uses the original version, just paste this version into your klimb folder in program files and make a shortcut to it.
I've another version which I currently use, which needs some modification to the existing klimb script file, which I'll upload at some point, installation of that is a bit more complicated though.
Does this deserve it's own thread?

[slackline]

Does this deserve it's own thread?

How about writing it up on the Wiki?  I've started a section for diaries under training.

[Serpico]

I've tweaked the wiki entry. Maybe a combination of wiki and a new thread?

[slackline]

I've tweaked the wiki entry. Maybe a combination of wiki and a new thread?

Good idea, make sure to change the link to point to the new thread (or to it and this one).

Perhaps have the wiki as the defacto place for documenting how to use it, and then use the thread for discussion of problems and enhancements/tweaks when people have problems, or would like to see additional functionality. 

[csurfleet]

Brill