[slackline]

I have no idea what any of that means, Slackers.

The point I'm making is why should web-site developers waste time making sure their site works in an outdated, superseeded (and fundamentally non-standards compliant in the first place) web-browser when their time could be better spent using the new standards which have more funky features that new browsers work with fine.

If this forces IT departments to pull their thumbs out of their arses and upgrade then thats a good thing, because old browsers tend to be superseeded for a number of reasons, not least security issues.

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

I'm all over the latest version of Chrome at home.

Magpie may I introduce you to a good friend of mine. 

[Johnny Brown]

making sure their site works in an outdated, superseeded web-browser

What's that then, something you got off a torrent site? Standards are slipping!

[slackline]

  lack of attention to the red underlining.

[magpie]

I'm all over the latest version of Chrome at home.

Magpie may I introduce you to a good friend of mine. 

I know about that, I am a bit hesitant to use it in work though, it's against our internet policy and I don't really want sacked over using Google+, I've done much worse stuff I'd rather be binned for.

I can get Google+ on my phone anyway, so I can see it here, just not in all it's detail.

[Grubes]

ok I had a play on google+ last night felt abit
I don't (yet) see how it will be any better than farcebook.
What the adantages? You can watch a video on youtube at the same time without spamming a url to a few mates?

[slackline]

One thing I've noticed that you could use it for is as an alternative to a managing a mailing list as its possible to have people in a "circle" who aren't actually signed up to Google+ itself yet would receive copies of messages you send to that circle via email (at least I think thats how it can work).

There are a load of video teasers on how to try and convince you.

[magpie]

I quite like it, it's much better if you can convince 20+ randoms from an internet message board to join you (as I did with people from another forum) though, that way you have someone to talk to.

[Jaspersharpe]

That's right, the whole of ukcatswearinglipgloss.com is now on Google+. 

A bit  but why do big firms / govt agencies seem to have such a problem "upgrading" their web browsers to something that isn't totally shit and outdated? Is it not just a question of telling everyone to download whatever new browser they want people to use as the standard one and why would something that's free cost a fortune to implement? I don't get it.

[slackline]

A bit  but why do big firms / govt agencies seem to have such a problem "upgrading" their web browsers to something that isn't totally shit and outdated? Is it not just a question of telling everyone to download whatever new browser they want people to use as the standard one and why would something that's free cost a fortune to implement? I don't get it.

No real idea, but often computers in large coroporations are "cloned" from a standard image, and the ability to install and upgrade software by the people who use them day to day is disabled (for security reasons as many people may well allow malicious software to be installed) and I guess in part it comes down to the way in which such systems are remotely managed, but also will often require a technically illiterate manager to sign-off on the upgrade when they may well fear being responsible for things going wrong if they do.  There may also be an element of "It should 'just work^TM' why do we need to upgrade?" at play with such managers.

[Jaspersharpe]

I see. Add in unscrupulous pricks in external support companies who exploit the management idiots with "well, it's going to cost you......" and you can see how it ends up in a mess.

 

[mr__j5]

That is pretty much the senario, in every large company and government department that decided that outsourcing the IT was a good way to save money.

They are now handcuffed to a pile of shit. But the managers signing off on the outsourcing contract know so little about IT they don't know they are screwing themselves.

[climbingjoe1984]

Maybe if web based office software becomes trusted something like http://www.google.com/chromebook/ might help this problem disappear. Google looking after you IT might fill some with dread, but at least things would be kept up to date.

[slackline]

Maybe if web based office software becomes trusted something like http://www.google.com/chromebook/ might help this problem disappear. Google looking after you IT might fill some with dread, but at least things would be kept up to date.

University of Sheffield has switched email and imminently Calendar/Diaries to Googles services, limited office capability at present.

[Falling Down]

That's right, the whole of ukcatswearinglipgloss.com is now on Google+. 

A bit  but why do big firms / govt agencies seem to have such a problem "upgrading" their web browsers to something that isn't totally shit and outdated? Is it not just a question of telling everyone to download whatever new browser they want people to use as the standard one and why would something that's free cost a fortune to implement? I don't get it.

A bigger problem for large companies is that software companies (and Slackers, I might add open source collectives) release feature laden but completely insecure, buggy, english only and un-backwards compatible products that rarely work as promised.  The cost/benefit of staying well behind the curve when it comes to software releaseses is well apparent.

[Jaspersharpe]

That makes sense.........but IE6/7?! Surely no excuse.

[slackline]

A bigger problem for large companies is that software companies (and Slackers, I might add open source collectives) release feature laden but completely insecure, buggy, english only and un-backwards compatible products that rarely work as promised.  The cost/benefit of staying well behind the curve when it comes to software releaseses is well apparent.

  with most all of that, but you'll find that in most open source projects backwards compatibility is almost always maintained.

I think its erroneous to consider any software to be bug free, there will always be problems because they're written by humans who are fallable.  Most free open-source software (FOSS) have what are considered "stable" releases (tend to have even number versions like 2.4, 2.6, 2.8, 3.0 etc.) and development releases (which tend to have odd number versions 2.3, 2.5, 2.7, 2.9 etc.).   Although personally I run the latest releases of almost all software on my systems as I run an "unstable" branch, upgrading within a day or so of releases.  About 98% of the time everything "just works", but then I don't run any widely used resources nor "mission critical" processes.

In both free and open source software the GNU GPL or the EULA make it clear that software is provided with out any liability and ' “as is” without warranty' should anything go wrong (i.e. you can't sue M$ when word or Sun when OpenOffice crashes and you lose your last hours worth of work).  You just pay for that privilege with non-FOSS (and can't modify the program should you find a bug and be capable and inclined to fix it thus helping to improve the software over time as you would normally feed the fix back up-stream).

[SA Chris]

The cost/benefit of staying well behind the curve when it comes to software releaseses is well apparent.

Futureproofing retrospectively

[slackline]

There is also the issue that if no one bothers to try out new versions of software, bugs and problems won't be identified and will remain unfixed.  The more people uptake and use things and provide feedback the faster software improves.

[slackline]

 

[SA Chris]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/8655358/Google-attracts-20-million-users-in-first-3-weeks.html

Not a bad start?

[slackline]

Google buy Motorola

[slackline]

[slackline]

For anyone who uses the WebUI to gmail....

Next time you're using it try hitting 'Shift + ?' brings up a window with all the short-cut keys which is pretty handy, because you don't type emails with your mouse, but with your hands on the keyboard, so you'll save wasting time moving your hand from the keyboard to the mouse just to click on the "Compose Mail" button (Ctrl + C).

[Iesu]

A bit  but why do big firms / govt agencies seem to have such a problem "upgrading" their web browsers to something that isn't totally shit and outdated? Is it not just a question of telling everyone to download whatever new browser they want people to use as the standard one and why would something that's free cost a fortune to implement? I don't get it.

No real idea, but often computers in large coroporations are "cloned" from a standard image, and the ability to install and upgrade software by the people who use them day to day is disabled (for security reasons as many people may well allow malicious software to be installed) and I guess in part it comes down to the way in which such systems are remotely managed, but also will often require a technically illiterate manager to sign-off on the upgrade when they may well fear being responsible for things going wrong if they do.  There may also be an element of "It should 'just work^TM' why do we need to upgrade?" at play with such managers.

I haven't bothered reading the whole thread, so apologies if someone's already answered this one.

The reason (as I understand it) for many large corp's hanging onto outdated browsers (My entire company was on IE6 or something similarly utterly daft until last year), is MAINLY because they are reliant on browser based web applications whose developers tend to be VERY slow to update to work with modern, standards compliant browsers.

For example my company's entire accounts system is inside a web app, so any time I need to check on project budgets, allocations, timesheets, etc etc etc I have to use a browser, and usually a shit one.

So blame the developers again (or something)