[PeterH]

Hi we are going to CA late Jan - early Feb 2010. We were planning to go to Bishop/Owens River Gorge for sports climbing & bouldering, but El Nino may mean bad weather...so considering JT as an alternative.

What do people think about JT for sports climbing & bouldering? The bouldering seems quite like soloing routes at Burbage, rather than short problems, correct? Is there anywhere you can hire pads? And what's the best guidebook? The Robert Miramonte book (2003) costs over £50 on Amazon! Looks a great place though and I like the idea of the desert. Nice photos at http://www.joshuatreeclimb.com/ClimbsGuest/bouldering.htm

ta Peter

[duncan]

Climbing aside, JT is a great place to visit, a beautiful part of the world and you can go mad in the desert and live out your Gram Parsons fantasies.

It's a bastion of US-style trad.: the occasional bolts were mostly placed ground-up.  The sport routes are small in number, mostly in the higher grades and scattered, there are no sports sectors.  You might find enough 5.10-5.11 sport for a week but you will spend most of the time travelling between climbs. It’s a world-class trad. venue at HVS and harder though.

I'm not primarily a boulderer    but the bouldering I saw looked pretty good.  Pads would be a very good idea.  No idea if you can hire them but the excellent Nomad will know.

Owens River Gorge is like a bigger version of the Portland cuttings shit.  Tolerable if you happen to be in Bishop but I’d be really disappointed if I had travelled from Europe specially for the climbing there.  There are about 250 (approx.) better sport-climbing venues in Europe, some of them even in the UK.

I’m guessing Bishop bouldering will not be badly affected by El Nino.  Last time I was in California in an El Nino year I got washed out of Yosemite (in October) but Bishop was bone-dry. 

Your other possibility for desert sport climbing is Red Rocks at Las Vegas.


Owens River Gorge: can you justify the carbon footprint of a trip to the USA for this?

[PeterH]

Thanks Duncan.

There are about 250 (approx.) better sport-climbing venues in Europe, some of them even in the UK.

We live in Sardinia, so no shortage of good sports climbing destinations on our doorstep. Some of the routes I even bolted myself . Single pitch,  multipitch (eg see http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=381132&v=1#x5512937 for a nice new one we repeated this weekend), bouldering, DWS... See my UKB posts with info on Sardinia, there's loads to do here and my main problem is finding people to climb with, especially during the week.

For our hols we are going to the States, to see some movies that aren't dubbed into Italian, eat non-Sardinian food, hang out in cities (New Orleans, San Francisco) with friends, ...all the things we CAN'T do in the natural paradise we live in...and in the middle go and see some friends who stay each year in Big Pine in the Sierra Nevada and know the area well, from where we can go to Bishop, Owens River Gorge (my wife Anne will belay but not too into climbing, hence sports climbing preferred)...I bought all the guidebooks, read them, got all excited then our friends said, "Maybe it will be snowy with El Nino, how about JT as a back-up?" Hence we are starting our research on JT....From what I can tell JT is an amazing place, but less climbing-with-Anne friendly than ORG,  ... Las Vegas / Red Rocks doesn't sound as nice as JT and neither of us fancy Vegas as a place....

I have contacted Nomad Ventures re mats. I could always buy a mat and ship it back, so then we'd have three.

thanks again Peter

[PeterH]

Nomad don't rent bouldering mats, but Joshua Tree Outfitters do
Items for Rent               Rates         
Bouldering Pads
       Metolius Fat Bastard   $15 first day, $5 each additional day
Guide Books
   Rock Climbing Joshua Tree   $5 first day, $1 each additional day
       Joshua Tree Bouldering   $5 first day, $1 each additional day   

[nodder]

Its an awesome place, there are some great problems but they are spread about a bit.  Worth it to go and do stuff like white rastafarian, saturday night live, streetcar, stem gem etc.  In fact 8 years on I remember doing those more than anything in bishop  so they must have been good.  Ah holidays.

[Houdini]

Is that where you woke ravenous and ate a raw potato?

[Adam Lincoln]

Nomad don't rent bouldering mats, but Joshua Tree Outfitters do
Items for Rent               Rates         
Bouldering Pads
       Metolius Fat Bastard   $15 first day, $5 each additional day
Guide Books
   Rock Climbing Joshua Tree   $5 first day, $1 each additional day
       Joshua Tree Bouldering   $5 first day, $1 each additional day

Eastern Mountain Sports in Bishop also rent pads if you get over there.

[Adam Lincoln]

Owens River Gorge is like a bigger version of the Portland cuttings shit.  Tolerable if you happen to be in Bishop but I’d be really disappointed if I had travelled from Europe specially for the climbing there. 

After seeing that pic, i am glad i didn't make the trip from Bishop to go there! 

[SA Chris]

If you want to go sport climbing from Bishop, Clark Canyon is much nicer.

I enjoyed the bouldering I did in JT, some quality probs but a bit spread out. There is a bouldering guide you can get from the climbing shop, which is essential to make the most of it.

Some sport routes there, but exceptions rather than the rule. If you are retreating from Bishop and looking for bolt clipping, Red Rocks in Nevada might be a better alternative - takes about the same time as JT.

[PeterH]

Well thanks everyone. It looks like we shall be OK in JT or Bishop. I shall buy the JT bouldering guideI think.

cheers from sunny (24°C, too hot at Isili except at Corvo Solitario) Sardinia
Peter

[PeterH]

found this really cool vid of JT http://www.varapping.com/joshuatree/

[fatboySlimfast]

J.T's a cool place to hang out but its limited for the bouldering and its as sharp as feck

Saturday Night Live

Stem Gem

[SA Chris]

I wanted a go at SG, but some anus pitched a tent right where your pad is, was obviously oblivious.

[dave]

Owens River Gorge: can you justify the carbon footprint of a trip to the USA for this?

shit that looks like blackwell halt!

[Rabies]

If I were you I would boulder in Bishop and go sport climbing at Red Rocks.  I left Bishop/Owen's River a few days ago.  The bouldering is great, but the sport climbing at Owen's River is just kinda ok, still check it out though. You would have a better trip if you included some sport at Red Rocks especially if you are in 5:10 to 5:12 range, more to do on rest days too.

Remember for JT you have the Black Mountain and Tramway areas (Tramway costs 20+ bucks though). There is a guidebook for the Tramway and I think there is one for Black Mountain but this is a less developed area.  Try not to do what I did and buy loads of guidebooks before you get to US, as they are cheaper over here. Also tons of sport of climbing just north of Vegas in Southern Utah with lots of crags recently developed. If you find yourself in Vegas got to Desert Rock Sport, they're really helpful.

Hope this helps

[SA Chris]

Again, a mention of www.drtopo.com is probably useful here

Jon, has Mammoth got much snow yet?

[Rabies]

Hey Chris, its getting there. Mammoth had a massive early seasons dump in October but a lot of that melted plus the snow wasn't very good quality. As of last week only three runs were open plus a terrain park but more snow has fallen since I left.

[tj]

Love J-Tree. ignore the naysayers who get a bit sniffy about it, it's incredible. The desert is beautiful, and there's some fantastic climbing experiences to be had. For desert vibes and gentle tradding, you should have a great time. We spent a bit of time there a few years ago, and I prefered the desert atmosphere there to the Utah venues (which are obviously mega also). Also, if you're belaying near any bits of old rope that look like rattle snakes, don't discount them as 'old bits of rope' as my wife did, they could actually be a rattler...

We stayed at Hidden Valley last time, and it was fine on the dick-head front. You get a lot of space per site, so you feel like you've got plenty of room. We had Stem Gem (mega classic bridging/groove climbing horror-show) in our site, and it says alot that I didn't even get annoyed at the folk trying this on occasions (I like a bit of breathing space/can be cantankerous if the mood takes me). And some randoms gave us a load of nice micro-brew ales when they left, simply because they were leaving!   

We were there from late Feb, so poss a bit later than you're planning.. Cold in the night, but fine really. Sat out in front of the fire-pit a fair bit. Flowers had started to come out too, which was beautiful. It's the classic Stonemaster winter destination, isn't it?

Off the top of my head, I think town is a 20-25 min drive each way... It's better to plan a little, but it's not a big deal if you do need to head in.

[SA Chris]

For gentle tradding and desert atmosphere I think you would love it. As tj said HV is the climbers campsite but very chilled out, no tomtom drums, firedances and shit like that. Not sure about any time of year, but avoid turning up on a Friday as you have less chance of getting a good spot. There's also a noticeboard if you are looking for partners.

You can get some cold days, especially when wind is blowing but there are sheltered areas like where Illusion Dweller is, or take a rest day and seek out the comforts of 29 Palms on the really cold days. You can shower at the climbing shop near the turnoff to the park entrance. Think about getting an annual national parks pass if you are going in and out numerous times.

[Stubbs]

Hidden Valley is definitely the Camp 4 equivalent with the dirtiest climbers and trustafarians who all look like they been there for longer than the 30 day maximum.  We've just spent 4 days in the Park, we stayed at Ryan which is the same price and seemed nicer/less dirty.  I think all the campsites are first com first served but it should't be a problem away from the holidays.

Town is a tiny drive by american standards (15-20 mins), worth noting that there is no water at the campsites, you can fill up at the gates for a quarter of free at Joshua Tree National Park Store in town, where you can also get good showers for $7.

The Crossroads Cafe on the main street was one of the best places I ate in the States! http://www.crossroadscafejtree.com/

[duncan]

I've been twice, both times around Thanksgiving ie late Nov. First time it was Baltic, very windy the whole time. The stonemasters were out in force which was cool in retrospect but I was on a post-2 months in Yosemite come-down. Second time the weather was great, cool at night but T-shirts in the sun or fleeces in the shade during the day. I was on a post-conference recuperation, was happy to enjoy some easy trad. for which it was perfect.

The desert ambience is great and I thought the Hidden Valley campsite was pretty nice. I stayed on the same site as tj. No running water. It's about 25 mins to Joshua Tree turn-off with the excellent Nomad climbing shop, cafes etc. and a little further to Yucca Valley and Walmart. The High Desert Medical Centre A+E is an education for anyone thinking US-style private healthcare might be an improvement on the NHS.

It will probably be chilly at New Year.

Figures on a Landscape, old school 5.10b R with all that that entails, is one of my all-time favourite routes but you can claim it was too cold. Run For Your Life, Touch and Go, Illusion Dweller, Solid Gold, Such a Savage and Swept Away are also great.

[tj]

Figures on a Landscape, old school 5.10b R with all that that entails

Hehe, a route with a little bit of a reputation, no? I didn't do it, but IIRC I have heard run-out E5 being banded about?! Just as scary (if not more so to second)? This was all through the friend-of-a-friend, so things can get a little distorted...

I thought Solid Gold was ace, E2 5bish I think, bit of a walk to get to, but well worth it. I have know some climbers who are normally relatively solid at E3/4 and technically competent have a hard time on it, but could just be they were having an off day...

Can't remember many routes, but Illusion Dweller I do recall as good, and Heart & Soul is a cool feature. I'll have a look at the guide.

[SA Chris]

Also do Loose Lady in the setting sun and a howling wind for the full desert experience. And one of the routes on the Headstone.

[tj]

Figures on a Landscape, old school 5.10b R with all that that entails

Hehe, a route with a little bit of a reputation, no? I didn't do it, but IIRC I have heard run-out E5 being banded about?! Just as scary (if not more so to second)? This was all through the friend-of-a-friend, so things can get a little distorted...

Christ, is is that bad? Apart from Equinox (too hard!), that's the only route I associate with JTree, so it was the only item on my "list".

Oh, it's probably not that bad... The only reason I say is the friend who mentioned it is credible and rated the person who'd had the tough time on it. But I am dredging this out of my memory, so I'd defo want a bit of feedback from someone who's actually done it! And like I said, I've known folk struggle a bit on Solid Gold (when I wouldn't have expected it), and that's OK.

How did I forget? Course and Buggy 11a/b is brilliant, one of my favourite single pitches ever- fantastic tenuous groove climbing on perfect wires. Clean and Jerk 10c was good, and the cracks of O'Kelleys and Wanger Banger are top-notch. Imaginary Voyage 10d is a great, improbable looking pitch through a massive roof- looks much harder than it is (of course, a requisite for a great pitch).

Plenty of fun stuff a comfortable walk from the Hidden Valley campsite too, which is a consideration when choosing a base.

[Stubbs]

The only parking restrictions are that some areas are 'day use only' and get their gates closed at some point in the evening.  This isn't a problem at Hidden Valley or any of the other central climbing areas where there are big car parks and pit bogs.  Ryan and whatever the other close campsite is are about 5 mins drive to Hidden Valley.

After visiting a few other national parks on this trip I was pleasantly surprised that Yosemite was the only one that feels over regulated, I guess that's due to its popularity, location and wildlife.