[Johnny Brown]

Anyone got any more laptop recs?

I'm after something that is small - thinking 12-13", but is fairly powerful - enough to play around with Lightroom 3 and RAW files. And perhaps most importantly, its got to look good. I'm quite prepared to pay a lot extra for good looks. And I'm keen that it will last a while, and not need the OS reinstalling every year. I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this - I'm even considering a mac. Book pro. Mainly cos no one else seems capable of making a machine that doesn't look shit. Can anyone persuade me otherwise, before I'm lost to fisher-price fanboi hell?

[Paul B]

I just recently binned a second hand copy of Stuff magazine that seemed to have plenty of good looking laptops in its top ten list. Maybe pop into Whsmiths and have a quick flick?

As far as OS goes I've been very happy with Win 7 and its system image/ backup options. I'm even running it on my AD150 with 1GB of RAM and that can handle Lightroom 2.7 and the 550 chucks out fairly hefty files and the canon EOS utility for tethering etc. no problemo. It even managed a panoramic stitch using 20 or so raw files fairly admirably using the Canon utility. Battery life used to be quite impressive on this netbook but it seems you can get ridiculously impressive battery lives at the minute.

[Davey_C]

its a shame asus don't pull their finger out and release a 12" eee pc with a fast processor and windows 7 as the 2 eee pc's I've used have been excellent apart from them having slowish atom processors in them

I've just got myself an Asus 1005p 10.1" netbook, I also upgraded the memory from 1 to 2GB. It's a great little machine, the battery life is immense - haven't tested properly yet, but so far easily getting several hours. I got it mainly for watching movies on it while travelling and camping and just browsing the net in the house when the missus is doing important things on the main pc - like playing solitaire.

[Tris]

I'm quite prepared to pay a lot extra for good looks.

How many fuck-alls are we talking here?

How about customising one of these babies? (make sure you pick the core i5 processor - it's the shizzle, and stick 4-6 Gb of RAM in there)

Sweet!

[Jim]

Good looks!!!?!
does this mean you'll be going to a hairdressers in the future?
Whats your beef with windows 7?
Saying that I've seen how you've arranged your plethora of hard discs on your desk top, the most bizarre thing I've seen

[Johnny Brown]

How many fuck-alls are we talking here?

I really don't know yet. The cheapest 13" Macbook pro is a grand, so I guess that's the tops. At the other end of the scale you can get the Vaio netbook from Tescos for £300.

How about customising one of these babies?

Nice, looks like a good option. Anyone any experience of Vaio's - models etc? They seem to get meh on the reviews, as they're more expensive than some block of plastic that's half the price.

As far as OS goes I've been very happy with Win 7 and its system image/ backup options.

I've been on it well 18 months or so - the beta version for the first 9 months or so, which was brilliant after Vista. The full version seems less efficient - there seems to be a lot of bollocks going on in the background which didn't happen on the beta - even if left competely alone its always up to something, which annoys me. And after about a year I'm starting to see performance drop. I'm sure a re-install would help, but quite frankly I can't be arsed yet. I'll probably upgrade some hardware at some point and do it then. I don't mind this with a desktop - a Mac of the same speed would be 10X the price, but for a portable I want something that will 'just work' for at least 3 or 4 years.

[Paul B]

made a system image? Re-installing ain't quite the ball ache it used to be.

What do you mean its always doing things? Neither of mine seem to do much in the background.

I've had a fair amount of dealings with my own Vaio and Nats family insist on wasting money on them (they currently have 3). I'm not overly impressed by any of them and they weren't cheap. I'm continually having to sort things out for them and the most expensive of the lot has been back to Sony 3 times already. They seemed pretty crap at getting out Win 7 drivers for some of the prior models as well.

I've got an Acer netbook and an Acer desktop and I'm happier with both of those than I've ever been with a Vaio or our previous HP.

[dave]

And perhaps most importantly, its got to look good.

You moving to textile street yeah?

[Johnny Brown]

made a system image? Re-installing ain't quite the ball ache it used to be.

Does that clean up the OS though? I'm jim's favoured 'clean install' for improving performance, not restoring anything.

Had a look at the customisable Vaios, they do look quite tempting, but I'd need to have a play.

I'm continually having to sort things out for them

What like? You've not just been unlucky then?

Are there any other choices for a good-looker than Mac or Vaio? I can snakeskin later...

[Paul B]

I could be wrong but I made one after I'd installed the OS, Office etc. hoping that would do the trick then I've got it set up to backup other files to my external. From what I understand using the boot disk I've made I can wipe everything then use the system image to get back to a clean starting point swiftly but I'm no Jim.

My Vaio (admittedly a while ago) would just get so damn hot. F*ck a george foreman just throw it on the keyboard.

Faults they've had;
Older ones (I'm not talking 'that' old either) didn't have updated display drivers for use with Win 7

The expensive one has had:
Hard drive failure
3g just didn't work
wifi card didn't work either

Despite all of this they'll swear blind they're the best laptops ever.

[Jim]

I have never ever heard anything good about sony laptops, I would avoid.

Johnny, I have seen how your computer is organised and if it was a desk it would look
something like this:
you have got a lot of background programs running and probably don't do any maintanace with the 4 hard drives you have got plugged in (mix of p-ata & s-ata).
No wonder its got performance issues. I seem to recall that you also run your c drive off one of the old p-ata drives
My copy of win 7 has been on my machine long before you had its latest version put on and its running as well now as it did when I first put it on and don't have any plans to reinstall anytime soon.
Saying that tho, if you are prepared to pay well over the odds just for looks then you're probably just better off buying a Mac

[Jim]

the wind series from MSI look quite good
http://eu.msi.com/index.php?func=prodnbspec&maincat_no=135&cat2_no=582&cat3_no=&prod_no=2092

[Johnny Brown]

I could be wrong but I made one after I'd installed the OS, Office etc. hoping that would do the trick then I've got it set up to backup other files to my external. From what I understand using the boot disk I've made I can wipe everything then use the system image to get back to a clean starting point swiftly but I'm no Jim

Ah, I see, cunning. Personal files elsewhere etc. But you've not actually tried it yet?

you have got a lot of background programs running

Oh I have have I? The only ones I can see which are 'custom' are a firewall using 1,400K and Dropbox using an admittedly excessive 10,000K. Performance drop has been gradual and may be my imagination if you say it shouldn't happen - that's contrary to your previous advice.

and probably don't do any maintanace with the 4 hard drives you have got plugged in (mix of p-ata & s-ata)

What maintenance should I do, oh wise one? Defrag? None are more than 60% full, and Win7 never spins up the back-ups unless required.

I seem to recall that you also run your c drive off one of the old p-ata drives

No I don't. I followed your advive and run it off a partition of the biggest drive.

No wonder its got performance issues.

I'm overstating things - it hasn't really got issues. It just I have this impression, partly down to what you've told me, that Windows slows over time. With the fixed spec and small drive of a laptop, I don't want that limiting its life.

Those Winds look a bit shit to me. A bit of fake Carbon fibre doesn't equal good looks. If Vaios are really shit, then it seems it'll have to be a mac...

[Tris]

Why not get a Mac book and run Windows 7 on it? Or am I stating the obvious/talking foolishness 

{The Mac book hardware is damn good shit and reliable too, just can't stand their OS}.

Although if all you are doing is graphics/photo/web shizzle then you'll be fine with some granny's in ya machine 
Not my cup of tea though ...

[Johnny Brown]

I had thought of that, but what I'm really after avoiding is the performance death of a 3-year old windows laptop, ang getting some bling into the bargain. If Win 7 has solved thing, then great.

I've used macs enough to get by with the OS, I can't say I think its better but I could live with it if the long-term benfits are real. And nice as the hardware is, it has its problems - eg no delete or hash keys ffs, and switching between ctrl and cmd constantly would be annoying. Why did they need to add another key? Ditch the cmd keys and you've got your delete and hash keys back. How do these people use twitter?

No mac fanbois have turned up to encourage me anyway. Hopefully Obi-gadget-kenobi will be able to drop some ideas in the am.

[Jim]

windows slowing down over time was in referance to XP not Win7 and directly connecting with installing and unistalling lots of programs, good to see you installed the OS on your fastest drive.
seriously having all those hard drives with files all over them, no matter how full or empty isn't helping performance.
run disk clean up and defrag all your drives should help for a start.
There is a lot more stuff running in the background that you don't need than you think, not just whats in your task bar.
what are your percieved issues with performance? disk transfer, internet speed, programs booting up, start up, executing tasks?
go to control panel, then performance information and tool and see what rating you get, post them back, I'm intrested to see seeing as we have very similar hardware.
mine are:

Processor Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8400 @ 3.00GHz           7.1 
Memory (RAM) 4.00 GB                   7.1
Graphics ATI Radeon HD 3450                4.0
Gaming graphics 2047 MB Total available graphics memory                5.5
Primary hard disk 3GB Free (31GB Total)                5.9

also click on the link "tips for improving your computer's performance" basic stuff but if you don't know it it can be helpfull.

What Paul is saying is that when you have installed you OS and put all your programs on and set it up how you like it, you can then make a copy (or ghost/back-up whatever you want to call it) of your C drive and if thing fuck up later down the line, you just re-install the back-up image of your C: drive and its back how you first set it up.
I don't do this because: most of the programs I run will of been updated if I ever needed to restore (i like to have up to date shit) and I like fucking about with computers.

The ideal set up will be to run win7 off an SSD with a 1 or 2 TB drive for all you document/films/music/pr0n etc and have another identical 1 or 2 TB as back up with a seperate power switch so it only runs when you are backing up (for a desktop)

You won't have any of these issues with a laptop because it'll only have 1 hard drive partitioned into 2.

I also have win7 on my netbook and my HTPC and the only time I have re-installed it was when I changed the hardware on the HTPC (new motherboard/ram/cpu/graphics) so though it needed it.

don't intel make mac hardware? and can you live with no right click?????? I couldn't

[Johnny Brown]

Jim, stuff isn't liberally scattered across drives. The OS is on the fastest drive, the docs are on the next fastest drives. The other two are for back-up, and do nothing. Win 7 does not even spin them up unless I try to access them. My last hard drive failure cost me over £500. I like to back things up.

Specs:
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8400 @ 3.00GHz           6.6
Memory (RAM) 4.00 GB                   6.8
Graphics ATI Radeon HD 3450                4.2
Gaming graphics 2047 MB Total available graphics memory                6.0
Primary hard disk 3GB Free (31GB Total)                5.5

[Johnny Brown]

Have we suddenly gained a load of keyboard shortcuts? Every time I hit the wrong key something weird happens - in this case tab, and it posted.

Anyway, the specs are indeed mostly identical, but mine is slower. How far is your's overclocked? Most noticeable drop in speed is loading files in Lightroom. That's been exaggerated by LR3 but I think the above figures bear it out. RAM usage never seems to drop below 1gb even when no programs are running.

Anyway, back to the main topic. Are Apple and Sony really the only firms making small, smart laptops?

[Stu Littlefair]

Johnny;

First, my credentials: I'm a fully delusional mac fanboy. I have had three Mac laptops and loved each one. Having a UNIX-based OS is essential for my work and I love the fact that my working environment isn't the hideous design nightmare of the linux OSes, and that I don't have to spend an hour googling support groups to find out which kernel modules I need to install to turn my wifi on.

I even have an iPhone 4 and don't care that I can't make phone calls. I love it.

However, I'm not going to recommend you get a mac. Your main reason seems to be that it won't slow down over time. I don't have any evidence that Mac OS X is any better than Windows 7 in this regard. The only slight advantage is that you don't need to run a virus checker, and don't have to defrag; which can be culprits in machines slowing down. Both my previous Mac laptops have gradually lost a bit of performance, as the extra bits and pieces you accumulate over time slow down the system. In summary; a mac might not be the magic bullet you're after.

They are pretty though. And you still have a # key - it's just hidden!

[Johnny Brown]

Ta Stu, that's helpful. The performance thing was only a perceived bonus really - the main reason for considering a mac is I want something which will be a pleasure just to own. The various cameras I've used over the years have taught me that specs are not that important - creativity and productivity are in fact greatly enhanced by choosing something I really enagage with.

[Jim]

my cpu & ram is overclocked hence why you have slightly lower numbers there but If my memory (not ram  ) serves my correctly you have an identical hard drive (samsung F1 spinpoint?) so they should be the same but they are not.
I curious why you need to have a laptop that looks good?
dont all laptops look roughly the same these days, just with different logo's on them?
also what is wrong with having to reinstall every 3 years? you'll want me to install win9 by then anyway   
also all your drives are plugged in and running so how do you know that windows isn't spinning them up as you say, I would say windows access' them quite regulary, indexing and so on.

Personnal I think that you will struggle to find something in the 12" - 13" screen size range that will be powerfull enough for needs, this size is all about efficiency and battery length, there simply isn't enough room to get a big enough battery under there that will last a decent amount of time running a fast spec cpu..... yet.
for the performance you want you need a full size laptop 15"+ I think.
I'll be keeping my eye out as I'm after something similar. did you not look at the MSI wind? u200 and u250 looks pretty good to me

[Johnny Brown]

my cpu & ram is overclocked hence why you have slightly lower numbers there but If my memory (not ram  ) serves my correctly you have an identical hard drive (samsung F1 spinpoint?) so they should be the same but they are not.

Obviously my cpu and ram need some work then.... I suspect the hard drive issue will be because I created the OS partition later, therefore it will be on the slower inner sector of the disc.

Personnal I think that you will struggle to find something in the 12" - 13" screen size range that will be powerfull enough for needs, this size is all about efficiency and battery length, there simply isn't enough room to get a big enough battery under there that will last a decent amount of time running a fast spec cpu..... yet.

I beg to differ... a lot of fuck-alls though.

It doesn't need to be that powerful. But I'd rather spend more now and not need to upgrade for longer. I tried to explain the looks things above, but looks is too simplistic, its the overall design.

[chris05]

I have a 13.5 mac book pro (upgraded model) which I bought to analyse EEG data (the computers supplied by my dpt for PhD students are shit). Although my usage is different to what you want it for, it seems excellent at handling/processing large files without crashing (this was a problem with matlab/eeglab on reasonably powerful windows machines).

They are nicely designed, most other machines seems a bit plasticy (?) and shit in comparison, although I couldn't justify the ££'s for this alone. I found that when I priced up similar spec machines at the time there wasn't too much difference between the mac and a windows machine.

Also it just works.... 

[Paul B]

if you're really hung up on the design then Vaio's mightn't be such a bad choice (just accept you're paying for the design and not any extra reliability etc.), thats one aspect they've go right.

The fact the power light pulses like its got a heartbeat is pretty awesome.

Do samsung not make anything that meets the specs? Their netbooks always seemed to get good reviews and I'm sure they look pretty slick.

[Johnny Brown]

Do samsung not make anything that meats the specs?

Good call. I could save a fuckload of fuck-alls and just get one of these.

the current second generation unibody model.

Yeah, my dad's got one. Love the aluminium unibody, hate the apple key.