[rginns]

I'm in the market for an HD camera, I'm looking for a canon HV20 which is proving difficult to find for a reasonable price on the net... if anyone has one for a sensible price I would consider.

Alternatively if anyone knows of a reputable source please let me know, refurb/used considered too.
Cheers!
Rick

[lagerstarfish]

Might be easier to look for an HV30, there seem to be more of these than the HV20
There is a Canon Outlet that sometimes offers refurbed HV30s on Ebay - they go for around £550 (for a PAL).
Several used ones come up each week. It might be worth waiting for one that already has a wide angle lens and extra batteries or whatever other extras you might be after.

If you're not bothered about having NTSC there is a seller called digigood offering new NTSC HV40 cameras for under £570 - only 90 day guarantee though 

A second hand HV30 went for £310 yesterday, but that suspiciously had no remote, cables, manual etc

I've been looking for one too, but can't afford to buy one at the moment

[GCW]

I got mine for 550 quide new ages ago, I'm surprised prices haven't come down yet.

[lagerstarfish]

I got mine for 550 quide new ages ago, I'm surprised prices haven't come down yet.

ah, you've been paying in the new QuidE, the exchange rate is much better.

Seen new HVs for sale for over £1000 

Prices are kept artificially high to prevent me from flooding 'tinterweb with hours of high definition footage of me not catching fish

[rginns]

cheers for the knowledge lagers I'll check those out, think I'll probably go for the 30 as it's a newer model anyway, just need to keep my eye out I guess.
Not too sure on the implications of NTSC vs PAL but am fairly new to the HD game so still reading up...
Good luck with the not-catching fish.

[lagerstarfish]

you reading www.hv20.com/ ?

and loads of stuff on the vimeo forums

[neil h]

I got mine for 550 quide new ages ago, I'm surprised prices haven't come down yet.

ah, you've been paying in the new QuidE, the exchange rate is much better.

Seen new HVs for sale for over £1000 


Prices are kept artificially high to prevent me from flooding 'tinterweb with hours of high definition footage of me not catching fish

Ha Ha I got my new HV30 last year for £380, you just gotta dig about

[GCW]

Which WAL do you use Neil?  The Raynox 6600 or the Canon WD-H43?  Seen some deals on the latter so tempted to go that way.

[neil h]

Which WAL do you use Neil?  The Raynox 6600 or the Canon WD-H43?  Seen some deals on the latter so tempted to go that way.

raynox

[neil h]

this is what my baby looks like, pimp my camcorder style, I have spent in total £700

[GCW]

Nice, almost competes with some of HV20 forum stuff.

Is it worth spending the extra notes on the Raynox?  Plus it's black and my HV20 is silver, wouldn't look as cool as the WD-H43

[neil h]

Nice, almost competes with some of HV20 forum stuff.

Is it worth spending the extra notes on the Raynox?  Plus it's black and my HV20 is silver, wouldn't look as cool as the WD-H43

TBH unc has the HV20 in silver, it looks gay with the same lense as mine, At the time I got my lense it was def the best on the market for the camera, maybe not now, but I would buy one again, make sure you get a lense hood mind

[GCW]

Looks a bit crap

[neil h]

good link here if you want to pimp your camera on the cheap, they will only ship in the states, fortuanatly I have some familly that dont live to far from the shop http://lacolorshop.com/default.asp

[neil h]

Looks a bit crap

 


ditch that mic, get a rode one like mine, it will make the camera look cool,

[GCW]

Yeah, pimp my HV20.

Useful HV20 thread as ever.

[GCW]

By the time you get the HD6600 Pro 52mm wide angle, plus a 43 to 52 converter ring (such as the Raynox RA5243) I can't see the combo for less that 145 squid, which is a tenner more than you can get the WD-H43.

Save 10 pounds and look cooler.

Sorry, Rick, ain't helping your query

[rginns]

 

seriously considering the HV40 now though...

[lagerstarfish]

The NTSC one?

[rginns]

the very one. that digi chap has them for 550 at the moment...

[neil h]

if you shop around you can get the raynox now for as little as £90, tenner will get you your step up ring

[Adam Lincoln]

Neil, why is your WAL so bulky? I bought the 6600 from New york and it doesnt have all the bulk on the front? ie, that big square thing. Is it an addition to the lens? Make it look cool  What mic did you get exactly?

[GCW]

The big square thing is a hood, TanMan

Neil- decision made.  I'll let you know if the Canon is shite.

[lagerstarfish]

the very one. that digi chap has them for 550 at the moment...

I think Uncle shoots with an NTSC HV, and he climbs even harder than me

Have you had a look at video shot on the HV40 in 24p native in cinema mode?  and simple to edit.

[GCW]

Have you had a look at video shot on the HV40 HV 20 in 24p native in cinema mode?  and simple to edit.

That's what I use.

[lagerstarfish]

Have you had a look at video shot on the HV40 HV 20 in 24p native in cinema mode?  and simple to edit.

That's what I use.

24p with pulldown (YANK) or 25p (PAL)?

oh god make all this technical shite in my head go away

[GCW]

Sorry, misread your post.
I use 25p native (PAL) in cinema mode, at S.Fine 1920x1080.

[rginns]

to be honest, ntsc, pal hv40,hv20, whatever the option the footage I've seen of any of them blows anything I can currently do out of the water so I'll be happy whatever the choice I reckon.

[lagerstarfish]

Only time it'll make any difference is if you want to mix footage from different cameras or make DVDs for PAL tellies. And even that's easily workable if you shoot in 24p.

[GCW]

True for online stuff, but if you run on NTSC (30p) or 24p and then try to burn a PAL 24p DVD you may run into quality issues. 

Although you could run at 60p, then run it through a second program to enter a 50p/25p cyclical blah blah blah

They can be interchanged essentially, but some argue you lose quality between 24p and 25p (logical).

[Adam Lincoln]

The big square thing is a hood, TanMan

I knew that. Just testing. 

[GCW]

True for online stuff, but if you run on NTSC (30p) or 24p and then try to burn a PAL 24p DVD you may run into quality issues. 

Dammit, I meant PAL 25p.
I guess Adam won't need a decent mic since he'll just cpver all his vids with youth rap.

[rginns]

True for online stuff, but if you run on NTSC (30p) or 24p and then try to burn a PAL 24p DVD you may run into quality issues. 
Although you could run at 60p, then run it through a second program to enter a 50p/25p cyclical blah blah blah
They can be interchanged essentially, but some argue you lose quality between 24p and 25p (logical).

you took the words right out of my mouth G. 

[lagerstarfish]

Only time it'll make any difference is if you want to mix footage from different cameras or make DVDs for PAL tellies. And even that's easily workable if you shoot in 24p.

True for online stuff, but if you run on NTSC (30p) or 24p and then try to burn a PAL 24p DVD you may run into quality issues. 

Dammit, I meant PAL 25p.

That's what I was saying

It should also be noted that some problems will fall into different grade brackets if they are filmed and then viewed at different frame rates. Problems filmed in NTSC are actually 0.04 Font grades (0.04167 V grades) easier than those filmed in PAL.
I move 18% slower than normal people to compensate for the fact that I am more attractive than most boulderers and so people want to be able to look at me for longer. This is why I still film in SD PAL with a collection tin left at the bottom of each problem.

[Adam Lincoln]

True for online stuff, but if you run on NTSC (30p) or 24p and then try to burn a PAL 24p DVD you may run into quality issues. 

I guess Adam won't need a decent mic since he'll just cpver all his vids with youth rap.

 

[rginns]

I'm now the proud owner of an HV20, on which I hope to record hours of useless climbing and cleverly edit to make me look better than I really am...

Once I upgrade my copy of PremPro it should hopefully be editable...

Now what other cool gadgets for the camera might I want? I was thinking the WD-H43 wide angle for starters, possibly the RODE mic, then the car mount, steady cam etc etc...! Soon it'll be looking like this bad boy...!



(might have to start a 'cock of the crag' thread if I start carting something like this round though....)

[lagerstarfish]

A wide angle lens for sure; and a hood to go with it.

Extra battery or 2?

ah, just seen that you got 3 extra batteries with it

[rginns]

aye lad, accessories are the way to go I think, WAL lens and hood for starters...

[lagerstarfish]

Manual focus ring 

or order one from the States
http://www.irvdesign.com/product/mfr/

[lagerstarfish]

aye lad, accessories are the way to go I think, WAL lens and hood for starters...

Raynox on ebay

same guy selling a hood too...

[rginns]

if you shop around you can get the raynox now for as little as £90, tenner will get you your step up ring

Think I'm going to go for the raynox as it's quite a bit lighter even if it will look a bit Winston.

Does anyone know of a competitive UK source for the  raynox 6600 as I can't find it for less than £125?

[GCW]

Keep an eye on FleaBay.

[neil h]

£110 at digitaltoyshop

I saw one going for 90 the other day but cant remember were

[GCW]

Quick test video for the new lens.  I can conclude that
1.  the quality is great
2.  you get closer to the pocket with a wide angle lens.




Not a bad deal for the WD H43 here.

[rginns]

good work G, nice comparison. There's a good one for the raynox here http://raynox.co.jp/comparison/video/comp_hd_videoclip.html#hd6600pro

nb: not sure this lense will make you climb better though...

[rginns]

Has anyone used a steadicam for bouldering / other vid making? Any opinions on the best one to get?

Was thinking of the flycam nano or glidecam. Any thoughts?

[JamesD]

Has anyone used a steadicam for bouldering / other vid making? Any opinions on the best one to get?

Was thinking of the flycam nano or glidecam. Any thoughts?

Yeah I have, I just finished an advance training course recently, and have spent the last 3-4 weeks and about 10 hours a week using steadicams, recieving training from steadicam operators with well over 10 years experience.
My business partner has a lot of previous operating experience too.
Don't waste your money, all the cheap affordable ones are crap, the damping is rubbish they suffer from side to side swing/tilt way too easily, anything without a vest+arm is crap and pointless, pretty much anything below the Steadicam flyer will probably not give you the results you are looking for.

Steadicam™ still have the best arms according to one of the leading steadicam hire/sales companies in the uk who I hire from regularly.
Your money would be better spent hiring out a flyer, after you've had a training course or two on how to use one, and hours of practice, everyone always underestimates just how difficult these things are to operate to a good standard.
Personally I can't see them being much use for bouldering, I would imagine a portable jib-crane unit would be much much better, as you could get flawless panning, and easy vertical movement, steadicams are great for a lot of things though, just can't see them being much use for bouldering, decent tripod and a decent portable jib-crane unit would be a far better investment IMO, and give you more bang for your buck.

[GCW]

What did you want one for, Pasty?

[slackline]

Steadicam™ still have the best arms according to one of the leading steadicam hire/sales companies in the uk who I hire from regularly.

Completely impartial and objective point of view there. 

[JamesD]

Dude they deal with glidecam too yanno!

Other camera stabilizing units are available, I am not sponsored or endorsed by steadicam lol, glidecam make the best vests apparently, but the gimbals and arms from steadicam are just superior in every way, probably because they have been going a lot longer as a company, and had more time/money to develop things I guess.

[Paul B]

I get what you're saying James but surely there's some cost element involved. I've seen some very acceptable vimeo stuff on HV20 using homemade steadicams, ok they're not perfect but likely its going to be used for videos submitted to sites like this very forum?

[JamesD]

I get what you're saying James but surely there's some cost element involved. I've seen some very acceptable vimeo stuff on HV20 using homemade steadicams, ok they're not perfect but likely its going to be used for videos submitted to sites like this very forum?

It's all relative I guess, e.g. what's acceptable to some may not be to others and so on, from my experience home made steadicams (or indeed cheap shit ones), are no better than using a fig rig, plus you end up wasting loads of time reshooting stuff as it keeps coming out crap.
Plus I just don't understand the purpose for bouldering, seeing as steadicams were designed for follow filming type shots, and shots where the camera needs to be moving, panning and following the person/object through the scene for dolly type shots but going places where a dolly can't go, or it's not possible to place one, generally for shots where the camera and subject are both on the move.
I just don't see how this is particularly useful for bouldering, where you are effectively following someone up a rock as opposed to through a scene, cheap Jib Cranes are great, and it's easy to compensate for a cheap jib crane by increasing your skill level, and practicing, and they are still good, they just lack luxuries such as motorized heads and so on, but they can still produce very good or indeed very professional looking results for very little cash, whereas cheap crappy steadicams were not, and hold very little merit for this type of shooting scenario unless you are using it to follow someone walking through the woods or on the approach to the boulder for instance.

For example these are cheap portable, (can fit in a backpack) and will deliver really professional results:

http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/public/view_item_cat.php?catalogue_number=glidecam_camcrane-200

I think you can probably even get cheap if you look, I didn't search for that long.
Results that you would probably need to spend 5-10k to achieve with steadicams, you can also get cheap dollyrails and a tripod-rail interface, et voila: you have still tripod shots, moving/tracking shots, and jib crane shots all for around 2k probably, around the same price you pay for a steadicam merlin and vest, which is shit.
In terms of me slagging off the cheaper steadicams, I guess once you've had a taste of the best you don't want to go back, but everyone i've spoken to who has ever hired/bought a merlin or similar has regretted it and either sold it, or taken up training to learn how to use the more expensive rigs and just hired in the future, they really are about 300% better, the more expensive unit's stabilization of the camera on the Z axis is just unparalelled by the cheap crap.

[rginns]

What did you want one for, Pasty?

Lots of info, thanks chaps. Just thinking of something different really, would be good to get some steady tracking shots of walk ins etc. I guess I'm a bit tired of the static tripod shot (admittedly the only thing you can do if you're on your own though ). Even editing between different angles can get tiring sometimes. Would be nice to get a bit of movement when filming others. A portable jib could be cool to use occasionally, or maybe a shoulder mount.
Alternatively I could just put it towards another lense...

[slackline]

Dude they deal with glidecam too yanno!

Nope, I don't know, as I've no idea who "they" are.

[Johnny Brown]

When I get a DSLR that does video I'm quite psyched to try some dolly type shots. Should be much easier/ cheaper to rig than arms or cranes, I reckon using tensioned wire instead of rails should work well in woods like font.

[JamesD]

What did you want one for, Pasty?

Lots of info, thanks chaps. Just thinking of something different really, would be good to get some steady tracking shots of walk ins etc. I guess I'm a bit tired of the static tripod shot (admittedly the only thing you can do if you're on your own though ). Even editing between different angles can get tiring sometimes. Would be nice to get a bit of movement when filming others. A portable jib could be cool to use occasionally, or maybe a shoulder mount.
Alternatively I could just put it towards another lense...

Whereabouts are you based, i'm shooting a short film near the end of july, and you are more than happy to come along and watch for a bit if you would like to see how steadicam type stuff is executed etc, not that i'm the worlds greatest operator or anything, but you might enjoy it?
I think it would be good to start with something like a cheap fig rig, portable jib cranes are awesome too and you can do so much cool stuff with them, perfect for professional quality vertical/horizontal movement with panning.

When I get a DSLR that does video I'm quite psyched to try some dolly type shots. Should be much easier/ cheaper to rig than arms or cranes, I reckon using tensioned wire instead of rails should work well in woods like font.

If you want portable dolly action, these are flipping awesome, had the pleasure of using one a little while ago, much less aggro than setting up a jib etc too:
http://kesslercrane.com/

[dave]

When I get a DSLR that does video

Just get a D3S.

[JamesD]

When I get a DSLR that does video

Just get a D3S.

Screw the D3s, it's all about this badboy: