[Steve R]

I spent the best part of 2 years researching, drafting, re-drafting, gap-filling, grading, re-grading, finishing and then archiving a list to Almscliff blocs (and for that matter the rest of Yokshar.) - I decided against a pure 7 + 8 list, including the stand-out and histiorically important easier problems too.

Fair enough, where did all your info end up then?  Sounds pretty useful/interesting info for someone wanting to delve deeper.

Part of the motivation was a coping mechanism, the other a romantic idea that records should be as historically complete as possible and inclusive of more than just name and grade. I published it once in the early days on ukb.

These lists are only supplementary anyway though aren't they?  I'd have thought anyone using them will be aware of some of the background of the problems or at least have the means to find out more if they want to.
It was only when I had a quick scout around for such a list and failed to find one that it occured to me to make one.  Ultimately, I suppose it's most useful for the likes of me - quite well familiar with the Cliff but not really intimate.  Though perhaps a bit soulless, it makes it easy to spot stuff you've previously overlooked/ignored for whatever reasons, which can only be a good thing.

#1 - Bulbhaul is not 8b+.
#2 - DWR footless is not a problem.
#3 - Making shapes is 8a.
#4 - Egg rose is actually 'The rose traverse' 7b+/7a+ depending upon whether you use the higher sloping break in the central section.
#5 - Fieldside can be broken down into 'Fieldside' 7b, 'The Wayne Fontana trip' 7b+, 'Waynes wonderful world' 7b+ and 'Mindbending' 7c.

Noted.  Anymore info available on fieldside, wayne fontana, etc. Never tried any of these so keen to have a look.  (see it's working!)

[slackline]

(see it's working!)

  Where's my beer? 

[fashionguru]

With Regards to the list

Cherry Falls is regarded to be 8b by those that have done the problem and by some (very strong climbers) who failed.

From what I have heard and been told, there is only one person PB that thinks it is not and he has not done it as far as I know.

Tony

[Jaspersharpe]

there is only one person PB that thinks it is not and he has not done it as far as I know.

 

[uptown]

where did all your info end up then?

I still have it, and keep it uptodate as best I can.

These lists are only supplementary anyway though aren't they?

No dig intended for your fine effort Steve, but supplementary to what? The less than comprehensive present guidebook, or the no longer to be updated and previously selective website?
We teach History in school less we forget the facts, and whilst FA details, dates and methodology/trivia might not appeal to everyone, they should be noted.

Anymore info available on fieldside, wayne fontana, etc. Never tried any of these so keen to have a look.  (see it's working!)

L-R,L-R-L,L-R(eliminate jug),L-R-L(eliminate jug) - The loop involves getting the pocket LH on swampy arete, crossing over to the sloper and dropping back down on the juggy pockets. Oh, and all of the shuffles start on the wall.
Keep up the good work.
#6 - It's called South cave bounce. 

[JohnM]

Where does Gaskins' problem start?

Also does Cherry Falls start from standing or from the lower break and does it just finish by matching the upper break?

[TomP]

Haven't had a proper look through but a few things of note:

Bulbhaul is probably hard 8b

Things missing (off the top of my head, spelling and grades may very):
Dick Hyman - 7c+, Virgin Boulder
Magnus Opus Super Direct - 7c+, Virgin Boulder
Niche Traverse - 7a
Rasputin - 7b+, Matterhorn boulder
Chaismate - 8a, Opposite Matterhorn boulder
Blackhead - 7b

[andy_e]

spelling ... may very

What's Niche Traverse?

[uptown]

What's Niche Traverse?

Errrr, the traverse across the niche?

[Steve R]

Where's my beer? 

I meant the list rather than my quoting but still, you'll have to make do with a wad point for now

[Steve R]

Again, all new corrections/additions/suggestions inputted to give the tuesday night edit:

8b
Real Keelhaul
Bulbhaul

8a+
Cherry Falls
Zen

8a
Making Shapes
Keelhaul
Gaskin's Problem
Canine
All Natural
Play Dead
Dialectics
Exorsist Short
Exorsist Long
Exorsist Super Long
Stu's Roof into DWR Left Hand
Chaismate

7c+
Lasting Satisfaction
Underhand Super Extension
Real Keel
The Bulb
Digital Death
Jess' Roof Left Hand
Stu's Roof
Stu's Roof Left Hand into DWR Ear Variation
Hot Dog Fromage (Original method)
Slopey Traverse Extension
Dick Hyman
Magnum Opus Super Direct

7c
Mindbending
Underhand Extension
The Keel
Mat Meets Buffy
Jess' Roof
Demon Wall Roof Left Hand
Dolphin Belly Slap into DWR Ear Variation
Dolphin Belly Slap into DWR
Virgin Traverse Full Link
Kissing the Cambodian

7b+
Wayne's Wonderful World
The Wayne Fontana Trip
Slopey Traverse
Grape Strain
Gypsy 'bottom of sloping crack only' eliminate
Stretch Armstrong
Sewer Rat Connection
Top Cat Traverse
Underhand
Natural Traverse
Matterhorn Arete Sit Start
Matterhorn Gully Central Green Slab
Matt's Roof
Streaky's Traverse
Stu's Roof Left Hand
Demon Wall Roof Ear Variation
Pistol Whip
Virgin Traverse Extension
Dreamland Sit Start
Brincador
Rasputin

7b
Fieldside
Crusis Sit Start
Virgin Crimp Eliminate
Wall Boulder Slap
Buffy Wants Daddy
Silver Trout
Dark Side of Chi
Pebble Wall Variation
Blackhead

7a+
The Rose Traverse (7b+ if higher central break eliminated)
Slab boulder beneath Wall of Horrors right wall traverse
Fractal
Steve's Wall
South Cave Traverse
Black Bulge
Brown's Roof
Demon Wall Roof
Dreamland
Crusis
Black Wall Dyno

7a
Traverse into Morrell's Wall
Morrell's Wall Mantel
Barley Mow
C & A Traverse
Sloper Partol
Ed's Dyno
Sit start crack into Matterhorn arete
Patta's Arete
South Cave Bounce
Teaspoon Cave
Pulpit 7a
The Niche Traverse
Little Greeny
Syrette's Roof
Si's Arete
Dolphin Belly Slap
Pebble Wall
Crucifix Traverse
Narrow wall left of crucifix crack

Are 'Matterhorn Arete Sit Start' and 'Rasputin' the same problem by any chance?  If not, then what's Rasputin?

Can't find any info on Blackhead.  Presumably based on problem 17 or 18 Black wall area in YGB?

Until tomorrow

[slackline]

Where's my beer? 

I meant the list rather than my quoting but still, you'll have to make do with a wad point for now

 

[SA Chris]

then what's Rasputin?

The lover of the Russian Queen.

[surfchimpster]

Think you've missed the 7a+/7b ss up the front of the virgin ( not the crimp one )

here... http://www.yorkshiregrit.com/problem.html?id=almscliff__v_3#photo

[Will Hunt]

Good list 

Pebble Wall is the obvious odd one out there. Needs to come down. 6c+ perhaps?
I don't know about DBS. Is this benchmark 7a?

Obviously The Virgin Traverse needs to be moved up to hard 8c+ and this needs a complete revamp and changing to E12.

[GCW]

I don't know about DBS. Is this benchmark 7a?

I wouldn't say "benchmark", but 7a is a range and there's nothing wrong with a low-in-the grade problem.  Just because it's easier than Si's arete doesn't make it 6c+.  Plus, look at the votes on YG.   Although 6b+? 

[sjw]

Cruxifix arete eliminating both breaks? Someone probably has a better idea but I was told it was 7a/7a+ ish. Contrived Almscliff elimation at its finest.

[Stabbsy]

Think you've missed the 7a+/7b ss up the front of the virgin ( not the crimp one )

That's Crusis and Crusis Sit Start, I think. On the list at 7a+/7b.

[Nemo]

Cherry Falls is regarded to be 8b by those that have done the problem and by some (very strong climbers) who failed.

From what I have heard and been told, there is only one person PB that thinks it is not and he has not done it as far as I know.

What???  If I've got the wrong end of the stick and this is some kind of in joke, please ignore the following...   However taking it at face value:

Cherry Falls has had four ascents that I'm aware of:
Tim Clifford, Chris Davies, Mike Gray, Mike Adams.

Of these at the very least Tim thinks it's 8a+ because that's what he graded it.  And whilst I wasn't there for the first ascent I was there when he repeated it shortly afterwards - so what are you on about? 

Of the others, I think Chris did it very quick, whilst the other ascents were something of a siege.  The impression that I got (but this was not from speaking to them directly) was that Chris thought it was o.k (as I understand it there could not be a problem more suited to him), whilst the others thought it was very tough for the grade (and so you may be right that they think its 8B.)

For what its worth, I personally have always felt that this was 8B (from lots of failed attempts) - and as you say, there have been plenty of strong people who have tried it without succeeding  (although this may also have something to do with the fact that the crimp is very sharp - it isn't the most pleasant problem in the world). 

You could perhaps argue that grades in general are now much softer (rightly) compared to how things used to be graded by the older generation in the UK.  As people have travelled more and grades have equalized out a bit around the world, so it makes sense that some things like this will get an upgrade.

But the statement that no-one thinks its 8a+ is just wrong.  (And I don't think Tim was deliberately undergrading this - he just is very good at pulling on small edges and so for him this seemed like the right grade.)

Was Cherry Falls orginally done from sitting at the lowest break of just from a standing start and does it just finish matched in the high break?

Originally (and all repeats as far as I'm aware) done from standing.  The sitter will add very little to the grade though (maybe half a notch harder).  Shortly after the first ascent Tim went back to do the sitter - he repeated the stand, and then trying the sitter, pulled the worst flapper I've ever seen on the crimp and never went back... 

And yes it does finish matched in the high break, although if you felt the need you could finish up Crucis or shuffle further right and finish up the Gypsy.  Would feel a bit like climbing the Indian Face and then feeling the need to walk to the top of Snowdon to get the tick though...

[JohnM]

Cheers for the info on Cherry Falls.  I get your point about not topping out but sometimes it's nice to have that feeling of topping out.  If it were somewhere like Bishop the problem would almost definitely top out.   

[Stabbsy]

A couple of others that spring to mind :-

Direct start to 'Arries 'Ook 7a/7a+ maybe (unless it's called something else in the list?)
Low L-R traverse around Si's Arete 7a/7a+ (I reckon harder than the arete, but others disagree)
The Descent Route on the Egg (sit start right of Eggy face, left of Matt's Roof - maybe only 6c+, but feel harder than Pebble Wall/Syrett's Roof to me)

[Steve R]

Think you've missed the 7a+/7b ss up the front of the virgin ( not the crimp one )

That's Crusis and Crusis Sit Start, I think. On the list at 7a+/7b.

Correct.  Is the spelling right on the list? not Crucis?

[Steve R]

Cruxifix arete eliminating both breaks? Someone probably has a better idea but I was told it was 7a/7a+ ish. Contrived Almscliff elimation at its finest.

Good call, I think this problem sounds like the best thing to include here:
http://www.yorkshiregrit.com/problem.html?id=almscliff__crucifix_travarete_elim#comments

[Stabbsy]

Think you've missed the 7a+/7b ss up the front of the virgin ( not the crimp one )

That's Crusis and Crusis Sit Start, I think. On the list at 7a+/7b.

Correct.  Is the spelling right on the list? not Crucis?

Not sure. I think it's called Crusis in the Dunning book, but I'm sure we're all aware of the occasional inaccuracy in that publication!

[nodder]

Seems like a good place to ask, on the bulb can you use the back wall all the way through the problem or just on the first moves?  Its not noted as being out, just wondering if this is one of those being tall things nobody (tall) mentions. 

Of the others, I think Chris did it very quick, whilst the other ascents were something of a siege.  The impression that I got (but this was not from speaking to them directly) was that Chris thought it was o.k (as I understand it there could not be a problem more suited to him), whilst the others thought it was very tough for the grade (and so you may be right that they think its 8B.)

CJD would have done it in a session but we ran out of food, water, skin etc and went to the pub.   We did used to spend an awful lot of time jumping round back then though.