[john horscroft]

I'm trying to come up with a diffinitive list of the trails that have been 'improved' recently.  My plan is to start asking Sheff City Council and Mick Hanson in particular why they seem intent on creating a network of pseudo motorways into the peak.  So far my list includes:

Porter Clough
Porter Brook bridleway
Ringinglow end of Houndkirk
trails in Lady Canning plantation
Burbage valley
Blackamoor (courtesy of the Sheffield Wildlife Trust)
Totley Moor (Moss Road)
Byway from Redmires Res to Stanage Pole

So, which ones have I missed?  Let's stop this fuckin' plague before we've got sod all left to ride.

jh

[tlr]

Not in Sheffield, but 'improved': 

Descent to Roych Clough
Mam Tor to Hollins Cross
Cut Gate

[cofe]

again, not in sheff, but hunger hill nr holymoorside.

trail maintenance i can understand, but widespread motorwayification is just retarded.

[fatkid2000]

I was talking to Fatdoc about exactly this topic earlier this evening.

It's to enable the fat bastards that inhabit the area to feel like they are getting some exercise walking up and down a tarmac road. 

[fatkid2000]

Like these 'men'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8261465.stm

[fatdoc]

I was talking to Fatdoc about exactly this topic earlier this evening.

It's to enable the fat bastards that inhabit the area to feel like they are getting some exercise walking up and down a tarmac road.

I got a NATO composite & hardened steel foldable spade 

sod it.

me make fun.. me not tell 

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

It's one thing to keep some trails buggy/wheelchair friendly, such as the round Derwent walk, now much less fun on a mountain bike than it used to be, however are they trying to make everywhere in the peak 'accessible'?! Are we already at the stage of 'I twisted my ankle on a rocky path, who can I sue?'

[john horscroft]

I think there's two things going on here.  The work Sheff City Council are doing seems to be the least logical.  They've been knocking down lots of old council housing recently, and a cynic would say that it's cheaper for them to use the rubble to blandify the trails rather than put it in landfill.  I'm sure their argument would be that the want to improve the network of paths leading out of Sheff into the Peak for all.  Frankly, the lack of any democratic consultation before it happens isn't just pissing us off, the horsey folk are up in arms too.

As for the work being done by the Peak park, some of it, (as Obi-Wan says), like the Derwent round, is ok.  Some of it, like the work on Burbage Green Drive, seems over the top. 

I suggest that those with a specific grievance make representations by email to the relevant authority.  For all the work carried out in Burbage Valley, Houndkirk etc, that'd be SCC and in particular mailto:michael.hanson@sheffield.gov.uk
For the rest of the Peak Park, mailto:customer.service@peakdistrict.gov.uk

jh

[john horscroft]

Late notice I'm afraid, but I've only just heard about this.

Meeting to discuss bridleway maintenance
The meeting will be to air people's views on bridleways and footpaths and to get comments on recent works on Wyming Brook and Fox Hagg.

The meeting will be at St Luke's Church on Blackbrook Road, Lodge Moor and will start at 7pm finishing no later than 9pm.

Please pass the details on to anyone you feel would be interested.
If you are unable to make the meeting put would still like your views heard then please send your comments to myself and I wil raise them for you at the meeting.

I look forward to seeing you there.

JohnPaul

JohnPaul Ward
River Don Manager
Sheffield Wildlife Trust

If anyone else can make it, it would be a real help.  See you there.

jh

[cofe]

only just seen this john. let us know how it went.

[john horscroft]

I didn't manage to get there but Sue Duke did and sent me the following:

Hi John,

 

It was really good.  Loads of hallam riders there…just me on the biking side.  But great to be able to share views with the horseriders and actually find out a lot of them weren’t enthusiastic about all the trail ‘improvements’.  Hopefully, I managed to put a stop to all trails being surfaced with wood chips going forward though….

 

John Paul Ward (Sheffield Wildlife Trust Warden for the area) was really good. 
 

A mountain biker, Henry, who works for Sustrans has got on the Local Access Forum.  Going to talk to him about start getting together a group for mountain bikers so the landowners and Hallam riders have a contact to consult with in the future.  Interested?

SO, the Horsey folk sound just about as keen as we are.  Interesting that we've got a mole on the LAF.  I think I know the guy so time to mobilise comrades.

jh

[Percy B]

The council have just started work 'improving' the Houndkirk road, starting from the Parson House end this time. There is a huge pile of that crush and run shite up at the top of the hill which they've started filling all the potholes with - its obviously work in progress, so anybody wanting to ride the track in its current interesting state needs to be very quick. It'll probably all be motorway-aficated by Tuesday.

Chatting to a couple of bikers out there today, one of them said he had it on good authority that Sheffield CC have recently been demolishing a load of old stone buildings and council housing, and the price of dumping the debris into landfill is way higher than simply crushing it all up and using it for "path improvement" in the Peak, (in line with the councils policy of improving access to the countryside for everybody). So basically Sheff CC is just carrying out a huge program of fly-tipping its builders rubble with the excuse that it'll be easier for chavs to get there stolen cars onto the moors before they torch them.

[cofe]

saw them starting this yesterday. we asked the fella driving the roller thing and he seemed to think it was just the big rut type things that were being filled in, rather than the kind of shit they've been doing back towards ringinglow. i'll believe that when i see it. also went into the crossroads which has all been flattened. hopefully that's it and it will bed in and return to something like it's old state over time. if they give it the treatment they've done back towards the norfolk arms then it's fucked.

few pics in case anyone hasn't been over recently:












why they can't repair the city's actual roads and pavements instead is beyond me. but then they are a council.

[fatdoc]

 

right, that's it.

I'm now mainly riding in Greno

my 7 yr old would under whelmed by that Shite.

This is like SOOO fuckin wrong...

[fatkid2000]

It's all designed to help the chelsea tractor driving chavs to take their vehicles out for a drive.

[lagerstarfish]

Looks like Reasonable Adjustment gone mad.
Some twunt from the council probably looked at the numbers of mountain bikers using these trails and decided that they ought to take steps to ensure that wheelchair access is available to all mountain bike trails.

[clm]

in the dark peak mtb book there is a route with a top 10 climb - somewhere south of charleworth.  cant check as my book is in storage.  anyway - rode it about 2 years a go and the top 10 climb is virtually tarmaced.  think the horsie crowd are responsible.  its the route which starts by a pub with a water wheel.

[john horscroft]

Me pal Simon took exception to the motorwayification of Houndkirk so he contacted the council.  Here's the reply.  Made me laugh out loud.

Dear Simon


Thank you for your e-mail dated 19 September 2009.
I am sorry to hear that the maintenance  works on the public rights of way network has caused you distress.
The material used for some surfacing works is recycled building material that has been screened. This forms a very robust base and has been found to be the most cost effective at around £7.50 per ton delivered.
The Peak Park Authority is actively discouraging the quarrying of local stone for aggregate use ,as you may know the issue of quarrying in the national park is a very contentious and has resulted in much heated debate and protest.
The Public Rights of Way Group has a duty to maintain Public Rights of Way within the local highway authority area, this includes a portion of the Peak District National Park.
The PROW group also has a duty to improve access to the countryside for the less able and public at large. These aims are set out in
Sheffield's Rights of Way Improvement Plan . This plan has received local press coverage , elected member support and is available via
the Sheffield Council Website. It is a statutory document coming from the legislation within the Countryside Rights of Way Act 2000.
The plan was developed with the Local Access Forum a statutory body also set up from directives of the CROW 2000 Act. The ROWIP
was circulated at draft stages and progressed with approval from elected members and the Local Access Forum. The drafts and plan
have been circulated to local Libraries and other public buildings.
The works often look shocking when first carried out but do weather quite quickly and the impact softens.
Local stone will be used where directed by Natural England who are aware of the program of works.
The works carried out in Sheffield Highway Authority area of the Peak Park are on existing routes. These public rights of way have existed for many years and there is no intention to pave the park.
The environment of the park has been heavily shaped by man over the years through deforestation ,mines ,smelting ,quarrying, farming and the alteration of water courses, this includes the pack horse  and haulage routes that are now enjoyed as public rights of way.
If you would like to discuss this further please contact me or one of my colleagues.
Regards
Nick James
SCC. Public Rights of Way
Tel: 0114 2736117
I'm speechless

[cofe]

Sweet Jesus.

[slackline]

Sounds like Nick James hasn't stepped foot outside of S1 

What nonsense having to ruin traditional rights of way with aggregate that won't actually make it feasible to anyone 'less able' to actually pass along such paths.

[Mark Lloyd]

again, not in sheff, but hunger hill nr holymoorside.

That gravel/aggregate has been there for a while, twas a good descent previously, at least the climb up the other side to holymoorside hasn't been modified yet.
Also the ribbon of singletrack across the moor at the top, I think one of the tops 10's in White Peak MTB is getting erroded and widened due to extra traffic I think.

Ps near the top of hungerhill lane in the standing stone plantation(On the Matlock/Chesterfied road) there are some jumps and stuff anyone know the access situation ?

[Ferrito]

Given that the landfill tax is now something like £45ish a tonne (correct me if I'm wrong...) on top of transport and the like, no wonder they're slapping it down on trails if it only costs £7.50 a tonne.

[cofe]

so the Peak is a suitable landfill site for building rubble? Ridiculous.

[Stubbs]

Suitably screened and crushed building rubble would not go to landfill, it would be sold (at a profit) to another construction site so they could use it, and claim an increase in recycled materials on their job.

Most councils operate a system now whereby any surplus of material being produced (such as this it seems) is offered around to different council departments to see if they have a use for it, rather than buying in outside sources at a higher cost. I assume this is what has happened here, rather than a Machiavellian scheme to use the peak district as a landfill.

The trails look shit though.

[cofe]

I've asked my MP what he thinks. Awaiting a response.

[john horscroft]

Good start Cofe, my man.  So, rather than just moaning about it, I propose we follow your lead and get political.

Therefore, who's interested in forming a pressure group to keep an eye on things and pressure both SCC and the PDNPA to keep things natural.  Maybe SCAMP would be an appropriate name as in Sheffield Collective Against Motorwayification of the Peak.  I'm open to suggestions on that one.  I know there are moves afoot to form such a group elsewhere, so if you let me know that you're interested, I'll see what I can do.

jh

[cofe]

I'd prefer a ruder acronym, but in principle I'm up for it. Cyclist Unimpressed (at) Neutralisation (of) Trails?

[slackline]

I'd prefer a ruder acronym, but in principle I'm up for it. Cyclist Unimpressed (at) Neutralisation (of) Trails?

  

[cofe]

in the dark peak mtb book there is a route with a top 10 climb - somewhere south of charleworth.  cant check as my book is in storage.  anyway - rode it about 2 years a go and the top 10 climb is virtually tarmaced.  think the horsie crowd are responsible.  its the route which starts by a pub with a water wheel.

Jon thinks this is Robin Hoods Picking Rods on Rowarth Circuit.

[john horscroft]

 

I'll put you down then Cofe.  I'd love to be part of a group known as the CUNTS just to see the look on the horsey folks faces when we turn up to a meeting and announce ourselves  -  "Good evening, we represent concerned MBers and we are CUNTS"

tee hee

[cofe]

it's a shame it's not footpaths we've miffed about: Mountain (bikers) Unimpressed (at) Flattening (of) Footpaths.

[BenF]

Funny this should come up on here.  I don't bike in the Peak much anymore (well not for a few years for sure) but I run a lot in the hills/forests of Cheshire and the Clwyd hills near Wrexham and this is going in many places there.  Many of the trails in Delamere have been widened to produce bland rubble/gravel motorways, presumably under the guise of reducing erosion and giving access for the disabled, much as they have been in the examples you guys quote.  Again, as has been pointed out, these rubble tracks don't exactly make the place any more accessible for someone with a disabilty; other than laziness or a phobia of getting posh trainers dirty. 

Its obviously a UK thing because I haven't noticed quite such ridiculous trails being carved in other countries that I've run in.  The Swiss have a huge network of trails throughout the country but don't seem to have the need to drive wide gravel trails everywhere.

[john horscroft]

it's a shame it's not footpaths we've miffed about: Mountain (bikers) Unimpressed (at) Flattening (of) Footpaths.

So, logically, if we called ourselves that, anytime I fell off me bike I'd be a muff diver.......

[Mark Lloyd]

No muff to tough we dive at five

as the councils are responsible for maintaining bridleways is it that some manager has not spent his budget so rather than lose it does some needless repair work on the trails ?

[john horscroft]

It looks that way.  I notice from the SCC reply above that it's all part of the Right Of Way Improvement Plan, so it's been decided by, amongst others, the local access forum which should include a wide range of interested parties.  However, I wonder if they really knew how destructive the SCC engineers intended to be.

Check out the ROWIP, if you're short of things to do at:

http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/roads-and-transport/cycling-and-walking-and-prow/prow/open-access/rights-of-way-improvement-plan

jh

[slackline]

Check out the ROWIP, if you're short of things to do at:

http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/roads-and-transport/cycling-and-walking-and-prow/prow/open-access/rights-of-way-improvement-plan

jh

Just started having a skim through this and got to page 5 where is states...

Local rights of way:
   Footpath – a right of way on foot or with the normal accompaniment of a
pedestrian, such as a dog.

Since when has a dog been a pedestrian? 

It also states on pg8...

The Definitive Map is the obvious starting point for assessing the public path networ - its availability, fragmentation and potential.

But nowhere does it indicate, nor even given a citation, as to where this "Definitive Map" may be obtained from.  What a mystery!!!

Typical half-arsed council crap    ...although I shall read further and see if I can be proved wrong.

[john horscroft]

   Bloody hell Slackers, too much time on your hands?  Yep, it's your usual mix of obscure council-speak, gibberish and some stuff I can't understand.........

[slackline]

  Bloody hell Slackers, too much time on your hands? 

Making the most of eight days left at work before I leave for a more fulfilling position and the boss being out of the office all day (and therefore an hour and a halfs liquid lunch  ).

Yep, it's your usual mix of obscure council-speak, gibberish and some stuff I can't understand.........

Bunch of fuckwits really, I'm sure if you asked any of the authors to actually explain in plain english what they mean they wouldn't be able to.

[Joepicalli]

I hereby wish to state my desire to be a C.U.N.T., If there is anything I can do to help Let me know by pm.

[lagerstarfish]

you're doing great so far Joe

 

[fatkid2000]

So by 2017 - when it looks like the council half wits will be finished the entire Peak within the city boundaries will have a nice motorway to access it thanks to the council dumping all its shit housing waste in the Peak. Seems to be a variant of fly-dipping that SCC can get away with. The alpine countries maintain their paths really well - but they certainly don't flatten them in the manner than SCC has.

I've emailed my MP as I was bored yesterday evening, asking about its polluting effect on a delicate eco-system.

[john horscroft]

Thanks for the positive replys chaps.  Hoping to get some kind of initial meeting together soon,  in a suitable hostelry, obviously.............

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

From page 32

Not all paths can be made suitable for disabled people, the elderly or
pram/pushchair users. Upland paths for example are likely to remain restricted by
their topography.

Nice to see they are on the ball...
page 78

The City Council will  promote the use of folding bikes

Policy 14, page 25

Policy 14. In areas designated for nature conservation the impact of access
provision will be treated with sensitivity and with due regard to the likely
affects on the flora, fauna and any important geology.

A distinction needs to be made between routes suitable for mountain bikes
and those for ‘road cycles’. Again a classification system and improved signage
would greatly assist users, especially disabled people.

There are 92 references to 'cycle' and 1 to 'mountain bike', not very scientific but it probably tells us quite a bit about the authors.

[Snoops]

FYA:
Its not just MB and horsies this bothers. Althougha climber and roadie, since the missus had 2 nippers I like a walk once in a while
Now my  quiet wooded evening stroll with the nippers through lady cannings up to the stones, with the little ones scrambling over tree roots and over rocks has been reduced to a pram dodging exercise on a fucking mini road.

[cofe]

From the Council re: Houndkirk:

Basically we are doing 2 schemes on the Houndkirk track, one at the very start just off Sheephill Road and the other being predominately in the middle section of the open moorland and accessed from the Fox House end.
 
Regarding this second scheme (which has started today - Thursday) I can assure you that we share your concerns that this is a SSSI and an ecologically sensitive site and to this end all the stone we are using will be natural gritstone and not reclaimed recycled material.
 
Regarding the first scheme, this is at the very beginning of the track and only extends for approx 100m and is an attempt to tidy up this area, which has looked very tatty for a while,  with something that allows a few cars to park, is sustainable, deals with water run off and makes the whole start of the track more appealing.
To this end we have used recycled reclaimed materials in this area as this is the best unbound material available to resist erosion. You will notice that we have tried to delineate a parking area, covered over with soil a further untidy area, Laid a large pipe under the track to take water from one side to the other, installed an extra water channel across the track, dug a ditch up the left hand side to take the water that consistently runs down that side and use the soil from this ditch to cover over some of the excessively wide track that had gradually developed.
 
I hope you will agree that this has tidied this area up. For your information the track at this point is not part of the SSSI as it lies between woodlands and farmed fields. I do not intend to use the reclaimed material any further up the track, however if other repairs are necessary I will use natural gritstone. Also, I would advise you that I do intend to continue the ditch up the left hand side and cover over the secondary track with material dug from it

[Norton Sharley]

 

[john horscroft]

And the Peak National Park has just reported that it has been granted £1.25million to encourage "leisure and commuting cyclists" 

The investment will aim to:
•       Build new cycling trails around the national park and improve existing ones 
•       Encourage families to go cycling regularly as a leisure activity
•       Educate the public about the health benefits of cycling
•       Give commuters and visitors a genuine alternative to travelling around the national park by car
•       Help reduce traffic congestion and environmental pollution

All very laudable, but if it's simply used to motorwayify the trails, it'll be a disaster......

[fatdoc]

One would suggest ( if one would be so persuaded)

to buy a quality foldable spade and tweek These now smoothed trails to have optional jumps, or drops..

If one was of that persuation...

The old renegade Mtber of old seems to have been surpassed.

One would Suggest the new type of path and the needs of the modern XC mtber could live side by side... But trail tweeking will be needed, one could never condone this from a presonal perspective of course. National represention would be ideal

[Jaspersharpe]

*hic*

[thustler]

One would suggest ( if one would be so persuaded)

to buy a quality foldable spade and tweek These now smoothed trails to have optional jumps, or drops..

Dog walkers dont seem to appreciate it as much as mountain bikers 

[fatdoc]

*hic*

you really need to
stop drinking at work jasp.

One would not condone such action.

Also, try digging a good jump whilst pissed up..

Not good..:-0

[cofe]

uh oh

[john horscroft]

uh oh

Oh yus, that's the £1.25m I mentioned a bit earlier on.  One of their major plans is to extend the Tissington Trail all the way to Buxton, which is some indication of the limit of their ambition.  This is all about family trails and links from citys into the Peak.  No bad thing, but may include some motorwayification (henceforth, MW for short!).

They're hiring a Cycling Officer, so best we keep an eye out for the appointment and put a marker down as soon as someone's hired.......

[Norton Sharley]

FFS, can they not just reduce my tax bill instead?   

[Mark Lloyd]

It's Peak Park who don't collect Council Tax not Derbyshire County Council who do via the Districts.
Curiously Buxton and its surroundings/Quarries are outside the peak park boundary.

[john horscroft]

Yet another late call from me - must keep an eye on my diary.  There's a meeting tonight of the Blackamoor Reserve Advisory Group which is open to all and Bridleways are on the agenda.  If anyone who cares about MBing on Blacka can make it, it'd be good.  Although I know of one keen biker who's going, it's deffo a case of the more the merrier.  Agenda below:

Agenda – Monday 19th October 2009

The meeting will take place at Totley Rise Methodist Church from 7pm to 9pm.

Minutes will be posted on the Sheffield Wildlife Trust website (as will other updates regarding events etc).


1.   Present & apologies
2.   Minutes of June ’09 meeting
3.   Matters arising
4.   Structure of RAG – chair, minuting
5.   Work programme update
6.   Plaques
7.   Power lines update – Andy Tickle (CPRE/FoPD)
8.   Paths & bridleways - item requested by Friends of Blacka Moor
9.   Beyond Blacka – the Green Belt and Fairthorn  - item requested by Friends of Blacka Moor
10.   New bridleway
11.   AOB
12.   Date of next meeting