[slackline]

I'm a bit cranky due to lack of sleep over the past few days, no offence intended, just wanted to highlight the pointless and futile UKB v's UKC digs that get no-one anywhere (other than providing material for t-shirts/hoodies  ).

[Johnny Brown]

Sorry, I've no idea if that's a good deal, I haven't really got a handle on prices unless its stuff I'm currently coveting...

My feelings on the lenses run like this: if you want a one-lens kit that will do almost everything, look at bridge cameras. Same or bigger zoom ranges, similar image quality, and a much smaller package. For me the whole point of an SLR is that you can change lenses, and therefore have different lenses suited to different tasks. It doesn't really make sense to me to marry a big camera with a lens mount to a do-it-all compromise lens. In essence you end up with a very large, heavy bridge camera with only a slight increase in quality. If that's what you are after, then great. But I think you are missing out on half the point of an SLR.

According to Price Buster the 16-85 is a good bit cheaper than either of the 18-200mms.

If you can't stretch to a £££lens now, then I'd look for a bargain body and one of these better-than-the-rest 18-70s, then save up for a tele/ wide/ fast prime depending on what stuff you get into.

On the wider Canon/ Nikon debate, they both have standard product cycles which are 18 months or so out of sync. So for the last year or so Canon have been releasing new stuff better than Nikon's now-dating line-up. But in a year or so it'll be the other way round. I chose Nikon based mainly on better build quality of the compact pro bodies. And the superior flash system. And the better handling. I mean I could go on, but I'll stop.  Neither are perfect.

If you can hang on til the D90 replacement is announced (likely this summer) D90 prices will drop.

[slackline]

My feelings on the lenses run like this: if you want a one-lens kit that will do almost everything, look at bridge cameras. Same or bigger zoom ranges, similar image quality, and a much smaller package. For me the whole point of an SLR is that you can change lenses, and therefore have different lenses suited to different tasks. It doesn't really make sense to me to marry a big camera with a lens mount to a do-it-all compromise lens. In essence you end up with a very large, heavy bridge camera with only a slight increase in quality. If that's what you are after, then great. But I think you are missing out on half the point of an SLR.

That makes a lot of sense and I completely understand that line of reasoning.

For me though I got the 18-200mm to get me started.  Plus the fact that photography is but a hobby for me and I can't justify buying an expensive piece of glass each month (or even each year) so my collection of lenses has grown (and continues to do so) very slowly.  And a decent bridge would have cost at least 2/3rds of the price of the 18-200.  But its not the only lens I have and regularly use my 50mm and 10-20mm lenses (now that I have them) and will at some point buy faster glass over all of the ranges (at the rate I save it'll likely be in 20years time though!).

[Johnny Brown]

Sure, it was and is the same for me. But I'd still say the likelihood of buying more lenses is another reason to start with one with a smaller range - and it will likely be cheaper and better quality too.

Another thing worth bearing in mind though - decent lenses hold their value well. Buy second-hand, treat it well, and you'll likely sell for the same price. With that in mind you can justify buying anything!

[slackline]

Let us know when you're next having a lens clear out. 

[Paul B]

With that in mind you can justify buying anything!

Not really as you are still out of pocket until you come to sell the lense.

[Johnny Brown]

Pocket still half empty Paul? You have a lens to use instead remember? There aren't many things you can own and use in this life that hold their value so well.

[slackline]

I can think of at least one thing, although I'm not sure there's much value in mine 

[chummer]

What you say makes a lot of sense Mr Brown, with regard to the ebay link I asked your advice about, that was more about whether the lenses were good enough quality as opposed to whether they're good value really. What do you think?
I'm an impatient fool so can I wait for the next Nikon development and for prices for the older models to come down? Probably not.

[tomtom]

What you say makes a lot of sense Mr Brown, with regard to the ebay link I asked your advice about, that was more about whether the lenses were good enough quality as opposed to whether they're good value really. What do you think?
I'm an impatient fool so can I wait for the next Nikon development and for prices for the older models to come down? Probably not.

The thing to watch with the ebay deals is whether they come from the EU (ie an EU sold Nikon) or from elsewhere. Same camera, but I think there may be differences or issues with the Warranty. I know when I got my d5000 there was a £50 cashback that was only available on the ones sold int he UK - so HK imports etc...

[slackline]

The thing to watch with the ebay deals is whether they come from the EU (ie an EU sold Nikon) or from elsewhere. Same camera, but I think there may be differences or issues with the Warranty. I know when I got my d5000 there was a £50 cashback that was only available on the ones sold int he UK - so HK imports etc...

  I bought my first dSLR body when leaving Australia 'cause I could get the tax back when leaving the country (meant I only had the thing for < 1 month whilst I was over there, but I'm a cheap-skate and preferred saving the money).

Some of the Hong Kong based companies on eBay offer warranties through 3rd parties, so worth keeping an eye out on that.  You will get hit for tax when it comes into the country though so bear that in mind when considering whether its a good deal.

[Johnny Brown]

Can't say I've used them, but there are good reviews on Thom Hogan's site. In short - you get what you pay for. Optics are better than you might expect (and compared to some of Canon's budget offerings), but ultimately these are cheap lenses that you'll grow out of, but won't be worth much to sell.

Personally I'd invest in a lesser range of better glass. As I mentioned above, anything wider than 18mm will likely be more useful than something longer than 100mm.

[Paul B]

only because I've been buying vans and spending on the conversion, I've managed to sell three of my vehicles with zero loss but thats what happens when you buy weird shit.

Yup I've got lenses to fiddle with. Strobist seminar on Wed was the best money I've so far spent (or had spent on me) regarding photography.

(ps - anyone know a good lightroom filters tutorial?)

[tomtom]

  wide is usefull for bloddering.. The sigma 10-20mm seems popular... (Slackers/Nai?)

[Paul B]

wide is usefull for bloddering.. The sigma 10-20mm seems popular... (Slackers/Nai?)

tokina 12-24 was the wide choice wasn't it?

[tomtom]

wide is usefull for bloddering.. The sigma 10-20mm seems popular... (Slackers/Nai?)

tokina 12-24 was the wide choice wasn't it?

I could well be wrong...

[Paul B]

I think (speaking to grimer) that the Sigma 10-15mm isn't as well rated as some of the others (but the extra few mm at wide end is supposedly great for taking wide pics of crags for guidebooks).

Kenrockwell seems like a good site for reading reviews, seems quite picky sometimes mind you.

[slackline]

I went with the Sigma 10-20mm and really rate it, although I've heard that build quality can vary (cofe?) I've no complaints about mine.



I find dpreview has good in-depth reviews, and is a bit less biased/opinionated than Ken Rockwell.  Their Sigma 10-20 review although there is also now a newer version of the lens that is f/3.5 throughout the 10-20mm range (not sure the extra pennies are worthwhile in this instance myself, note comment at end about Tokina being faster in this range).

[Johnny Brown]

Ken Rockwell often reviews stuff he's never seen, purely on spec. He spouts a lot of shit.

If you're a Nikon user, Thom Hogan actually reviews stuff carefully. Dpreview is okay but can be a pain wading through all the specs.

Sigma have a bad rep on consistency, but I think the noise made over it on the web is excessive.

anyone know a good lightroom filters tutorial

Filters as in the search function? Or the grad filter?

[JamesD]

only because I've been buying vans and spending on the conversion, I've managed to sell three of my vehicles with zero loss but thats what happens when you buy weird shit.

Yup I've got lenses to fiddle with. Strobist seminar on Wed was the best money I've so far spent (or had spent on me) regarding photography.

(ps - anyone know a good lightroom filters tutorial?)

What do you want to know?

Do you mean you want to create presets that you can apply like filters, or you want to create effects similar to filters in photoshop, but in Lightroom, either way pretty sure I can help you out.

[JamesD]

By the way, speaking of lenses, has anyone see the images you can kick out with the Nikon F2 200mm VR Prime.....  Possibly one of the sharpest lenses I have ever seen at any focal length.
I don't need one, it's completely impractical, and indeed useless most of the time for me, but I WANT IT!

[Paul B]

grad filter.

[Johnny Brown]

I mainly use them to darken skies/ lighten foregrounds in landscape shots.

You need a fairly level horizon for it not to be obvious. Drag the cursor, you get the filter. Adjust the breadth of the graduation on the image, and the change in exposure on the right menu. Not much to it - play around.

Video tutorial.

[chummer]

What you say makes a lot of sense Mr Brown, with regard to the ebay link I asked your advice about, that was more about whether the lenses were good enough quality as opposed to whether they're good value really. What do you think?
I'm an impatient fool so can I wait for the next Nikon development and for prices for the older models to come down? Probably not.

The thing to watch with the ebay deals is whether they come from the EU (ie an EU sold Nikon) or from elsewhere. Same camera, but I think there may be differences or issues with the Warranty. I know when I got my d5000 there was a £50 cashback that was only available on the ones sold int he UK - so HK imports etc...

I've made that mistake before (Hong Kong) getting stung for a hefty tax bill and carrier handing charges, changing a good deal into one not worth having.

I've managed to get a d90 body only on ebay for £500 from a local seller with receipts and about a 1500 shutter count. Now just waiting on a good deal on a 16-85mm to get me started with a view to then going with prime lenses only, as and when I can afford them/ know what I most want. I think the 16-85mm will always be useful for when I want to only take one lens out with me without sacrificing quality too much. Thanks again for all the advice, all I've got to do know is get me girlfriend to pose get me mates on some photogenic routes..

[grimer]

lured by the video capabilities of the D90 and the good reports about the D300 from johnnybrown and jamesD i swallowed hard and got a D300s. I have a whole bunch of lenses that are alright / good, so might try to flog some and rationalise.