WCJ Central Buttress routes (Read 9592 times)

mrjonathanr · July 27, 2009, 11:34:53 pm

Going to Central Buttress WCJ later on tuesday (28 July). Would anyone like to share recommendations of routes in addition to the Alien and Behemoth, or perhaps any recent knowledge re. missing pegs/bolts ?
Any advice much appreciated. Thanks. Jon

Joepicalli · July 28, 2009, 09:21:23 am

Suspect its going to be wet, but was there last month. Its very dusty, loose and the gear's crap. Had an epic on "Saint Paul" (Yes that's the E2) and worked "In Bulk" getting all the moves. Most of the routes need the fixed gear replacing which will involve conversations about bolts for pegs and other ethical shenannagins. Good luck.

grimer · July 28, 2009, 10:27:32 am

hi joe I mentioned bolts for pegs on In Bulk to Jerry and he seemed pretty happy about it

Joepicalli · July 28, 2009, 11:58:18 am

Oh cool thanks Grimer if I can get Seb back down there (i.e. if it ever stops raining) we'll go for it.

etjoset · July 28, 2009, 05:24:47 pm

I thought that St Paul and Knuckle Knocker were both pretty good, albeit somewhat neglected. That said, they were both a bit dirty when I did them in 1989 and I can't imagine that they've improved much in the 20 years since. As has been mentioned by several others in recent years, this crag is in desperate need of an overhaul. Lots of classics; most of which are seldom climbed and some of which are never climbed.

mrjonathanr · July 29, 2009, 12:09:05 am

Thanks for the comments guys. I'm sure you were right Joe about the dampness: we went to Stoney Quarry and did Jasper and C. Crack - quite entertaining finishing that off in the rain. Must meet up and do a few routes Joe (what's In Bulk like - necky?). Sounds like people rate WCJ CButtress but it will have to wait for another day, maybe a dry one if such a thing ever occurs again.

Joepicalli · July 29, 2009, 09:27:52 am

Yeah necky but not dangerous, or at least it won't be once the in-sit stuff is sorted.

mrjonathanr · July 29, 2009, 01:17:15 pm

Sounds like maybe one to consider.... 7b/+ I'm guessing. You out mid-week over next few weeks Joe?

Falling Down · July 29, 2009, 01:48:32 pm

I was talking with Rab in May whilst out climbing and he mentioned that the recent clearance work at Stoney was something of a 'practice run' for other crags in the peak. He said Central Buttress was one he'd like to have a concerted effort to clean...

Joepicalli · July 29, 2009, 01:58:22 pm

More Like 7c/ + I reckoned Jon. And it would be great to meet up down there.

mrjonathanr · July 29, 2009, 02:10:03 pm

Quote from: Joepicalli on July 29, 2009, 01:58:22 pm

More Like 7c/ + I reckoned Jon.

Isn't there a story about Jerry jumping off soloing that thing??

And it would be great to meet up down there.

We'll sort something out after the deluge

Johnny Brown · July 29, 2009, 05:42:26 pm

Quote

I was talking with Rab in May whilst out climbing and he mentioned that the recent clearance work at Stoney was something of a 'practice run' for other crags in the peak. He said Central Buttress was one he'd like to have a concerted effort to clean...

We discussed this at the last Peak area BMC meet - there's a thread on Cocktalk somewhere. I went down to check it out and there really isn't anything that needs doing other than giving the routes a bit of traffic. Clean rock, no veg, trees or ivy, takes little drainage - was bone dry when the Cornice 70 yds away was soaked. Great spot. If you acces via the weir just upstream its one of the most pleasant wades in the valley.

Nigel · July 29, 2009, 06:24:40 pm

How many of the routes did you do word?

Johnny Brown · July 29, 2009, 06:57:12 pm

None, I couldn't get a partner. Its pretty obvious from the ground that a major clean-up won't be required though. Probably a good thing as it won't require NE approval.

Joepicalli · July 29, 2009, 11:30:21 pm

There was a fair bit of minor (ish) loose that should be dealt with, and a lot of the pegs need replacing. As you can see from this thread I've got the go ahead to replace the pegs for bolts on "In Bulk" so I'lll be doing that as and when, It will obviously be on a non-climbing day so I'll do a bit of tidying up in a civic minded way as well.

Bonjoy · July 30, 2009, 09:12:05 am

Quote from: Johnny Brown on July 29, 2009, 05:42:26 pm

We discussed this at the last Peak area BMC meet - there's a thread on Cocktalk somewhere. I went down to check it out and there really isn't anything that needs doing other than giving the routes a bit of traffic. Clean rock, no veg, trees or ivy, takes little drainage - was bone dry when the Cornice 70 yds away was soaked. Great spot. If you acces via the weir just upstream its one of the most pleasant wades in the valley.

Quote from: Johnny Brown on July 29, 2009, 06:57:12 pm

None, I couldn't get a partner. Its pretty obvious from the ground that a major clean-up won't be required though. Probably a good thing as it won't require NE approval.

I’ve no idea where the idea arose that this is a vegetated crag, it isn’t and like you say a big Stoney style clean-up isn’t needed. However, a ground level inspection is far from sufficient to declare routes clean and insitu gear to be of more than ornamental value (remind me never to use you on a building inspection!). A good proportion of the routes here rely on pegs and a good proportion of these exceeded their use-by date a long time ago, that’s the real issue. You’d hope this can be addressed as it always has been, without major fanfare or the involvement of government bodies.

Joepicalli · July 30, 2009, 09:43:00 am

I did think that Johnny was being a bit optimistic. Pegs deffinately need inspecting and replacing where necessary, in a systematic fashion, and the lack of traffic means a brush bit of a digout wouldn't go a miss.

dave · July 30, 2009, 09:54:54 am

although this has been discussed before, might be worth not replacing pegs wherever possible. if the routes get bolder then at least they are bolder routes that don't require more than an occaisonal clean/ascent to remain good, rather than replacing pegs which means yeah the'll be fine now but in 20 or 30 years time it'll end up being once again a crag no-one goes to because its perceived as being a crag where everything relies on dodgy ancient pegs.

Joepicalli · July 30, 2009, 10:07:46 am

Quote from: dave on July 30, 2009, 09:54:54 am

although this has been discussed before, might be worth not replacing pegs wherever possible. if the routes get bolder then at least they are bolder routes that don't require more than an occaisonal clean/ascent to remain good, rather than replacing pegs which means yeah the'll be fine now but in 20 or 30 years time it'll end up being once again a crag no-one goes to because its perceived as being a crag where everything relies on dodgy ancient pegs.

Yeah when I said the pegs need replacing I wasn't implying with pegs. As you can see I'm going to bolt-for-peg on In Bulk now I've got FA's go ahead.
I used the neutral "needs replacing" because life is too short to get into general ethical debates.

mrjonathanr · July 30, 2009, 11:14:32 am

Quote from: Joepicalli on July 30, 2009, 10:07:46 am

I used the neutral "needs replacing" because life is too short to get into general ethical debates.

That's not very philosophical is it?

Any dates in mind? I'm off for summer so might be free to lend a hand (unless mountain crags dry out of a sudden).

Bonjoy · August 12, 2009, 11:19:30 am

Quote from: Joepicalli on July 30, 2009, 10:07:46 am

Quote from: dave on July 30, 2009, 09:54:54 am
although this has been discussed before, might be worth not replacing pegs wherever possible. if the routes get bolder then at least they are bolder routes that don't require more than an occaisonal clean/ascent to remain good, rather than replacing pegs which means yeah the'll be fine now but in 20 or 30 years time it'll end up being once again a crag no-one goes to because its perceived as being a crag where everything relies on dodgy ancient pegs.
Yeah when I said the pegs need replacing I wasn't implying with pegs. As you can see I'm going to bolt-for-peg on In Bulk now I've got FA's go ahead.
I used the neutral "needs replacing" because life is too short to get into general ethical debates.

Had a look at this yesterday. According to the guide it only ever had one peg (below the crux) and this has already been replaced with a bolt. No idea who added this bolt, it looks to have been there for a few years but still in good nick. It’s also had a lower-off added, hence avoiding the hideously blocky top out. There is good gear further up and I don’t think it needs any additional fixed pro. Looks really good, as do the two E6s to the left.
Five other routes have also had key pegs replaced with new pegs or bolts, presumably around the same time.
I removed the peg from St Paul as it was the most dangerous one I’ve ever come across. Superficially it looked good (uncorroded and in to the hilt) but on closer inspection was passed through a void below a flake and only 1 inch of peg was actually bedded in the placement!! Needless to say it took little removing and would not have held even a small fall.

Neil F · August 12, 2009, 12:26:37 pm

Quote from: Bonjoy on August 12, 2009, 11:19:30 am

....Looks really good, as do the two E6s to the left.

I do remember the climbing on La Belle Age was excellent, but it too was very reliant on a couple of crucial pegs. I did it not long after the FA, so those pegs would need careful re-assessment now. But there is no drainage line here, so they might be okay? I think that one was originally E5, but we felt it was a bit harder than the other 5's here, so we nudged it up to E6 when writing the last guide. I imagine In Bulk is rather harder, tho...

Quote

Five other routes have also had key pegs replaced with new pegs or bolts, presumably around the same time.

Which ones, Jon?

Neil

Bonjoy · August 12, 2009, 01:38:46 pm

A mid-height bolt not mentioned in the BMC guide where La Chute and Sox cross (could have got wrong routes there as don’t have guide to hand). The two counter diagonals.
New stainless peg replacing the one mentioned as missing on Leviathon.
In Bulk and En Masse Descendre share the same new bolt and lower-off.
The second peg on La Belle Age is now a bolt. The first peg seemed reasonably good and the break not far below looked like it would take something.
The upper peg on La Route listed as missing in the guide is also back in.

Bonjoy · August 14, 2009, 01:59:17 pm

Regards In Bulk, although all the main guides only mention one peg (now a bolt), the earliest reference to it I can find which is one of the Peak Supplements mentions pegs plural, so maybe it did have more than one originally. I guess Jerry may remember.

TobyD · August 22, 2009, 10:03:05 am

Some CB knowledge / beta:

Knuckle Knocker: did yesterday, its quite a good line, with some good features, but currently really pretty loose and generally unpleasant. I thought it felt very hard indeed for E2.

Alien: brilliant climbing and rock, clean and all solid (as much as peak lime gets!) found the crux very tricky, to figure out and to do. great route though, with a good lower off.

In Bulk: brilliant, clean, solid, and tough! Definitely does not need any more fixed kit, it would wreck the route puttin anything else in. To be honest i thought the bolt was a bit superfluous anyway, there is good enough gear level with it. I thought 7c ish, with the proviso that i was trying it ground up, but was feeling pretty soft on the day, and was probably flinding it harder than it actually is. Make sure you take rocks 3-5 for the gear after the runout!