[Steve R]

first up, Tragedy:

a) is it worth doing?
b) is it still 7c? 

reason I ask is I had a spin on I ain't no sponsored hero last year and found it to be both impossible and crap.  Presumably this is due to lost holds?

Next, subculture and some specific moves beta.... might be a bit tricky to describe as I think it was feet sequencing causing me problems, but anyway:

having done the steep start and moved left you get a decent flake hold and do a span up and right to a positive first joint edge with your right hand.  Are there any tricks from here to get into a position to do the long lock move off the edge to the first good set of holds?  Got quite stumped here when I tried it....

thanks in advance for any help with any of that

[Andy F]

Tragedy - Did it years (10+) ago and felt in more like 7c+ and 1-2*. Stuff may well have come off it since then and it may be easier/harder as a result. Doesn't seem to get much traffic nowaday's. There are better routes around the grade (the Ashes, Dominatrix, Man with a gun, Biological etc).

Subculture - again did it years ago so sequence may be a bit duff but - good flake with LH, RH gaston into downwards little flake, LH undercut, RH positive edge, big rock up (LF high) into good undercut for LH, RF high outside edge, RH over to jugs and glory.

Hope this helps

[JohnM]

Subculture:  Span out to positive finger slot from big flat undercut out left using the little pinch for your right hand by the third clip as an intermediate to help get set up.  Tuck a toe hook up by your left hand in the undercut which allows you to easily release your left hand and take the crimp.  Place you right foot down and right in a shallow scoop and bring your left foot up and turn your toe down into the grozzly pinch hold you take at the start of the crux sequence.  Then either go straight up into the undercut or take a slopey pinch out left to to help you pull up higher to go into the undercut or do what I did and faff around considering both options and fall off!

[Serpico]

If you've done 'I Aint No....' you've done all the decent climbing on Tragedy.

[Steve R]

ok thanks for the info and impressive memory andy...  I remember now from having the positive rh edge 'falling' onto the slopey pinch (I guess this is where the toe hook can help) with lh to find myself too stretched to do anything.  Also, sounds like I spurned this second good lh undercut altogether and locked to the jugs off rh edge, oops - not likely the link i don't think.

cheers anyway, that's given me plenty to go on so should sort a sequence next time and I don't think I'll get on tragedy in a hurry....