[tomtom]

Ooooooo cheeky early wicket getting my hopes up.

A very interesting day ahead.... I dont think the weathers going to be as bad as everyone thought (I'm in S.Manc) and its going to be fun to see how much the Aussies want to get ahead... Then need to dangle the carrot, but not too many!!

[Moo]

Well I'm predicting the Aussies to declare early leaving around 350 we'll spend the day playing off the back foot maybe get a sniff at the win late on assuming we don't have a batting collapse.

In reality it'll rain and I'll be stuck on this oil rig forced to watch Scottish football, which is about as close to purgatory as you can get without dying.

[Jaspersharpe]

Clarke understandably not happy about the bad light decision but I don't think it'll end up having any bearing on the result.

It was another odd one by the umpires though and in keeping with the frankly shoddy standard throughout the series so far.

How the ICB have got to the point where these are the only umpires allowed to officiate in an Ashes series is beyond me. The system is fucked.

[tomtom]

Ironically the sun is now out in S. Manchester...

[butters]

It was another odd one by the umpires though and in keeping with the frankly shoddy standard throughout the series so far.

How the ICB have got to the point where these are the only umpires allowed to officiate in an Ashes series is beyond me. The system is fucked.

This article covers some of the points that you raise Jasper and also points out that Cook was never going to have two spinners bowling even if he had Warne and Muri to call on. Can not blame him for that as a draw is all that England need and as much as I would like to see a frenetic run chase in an attempt to win it was never going to happen.

As for the ICB and neutral umpires - I there are a total of 12 elite umpires but eight of those are either English or Australian which leaves only four available for selection as you can not have home\away umpires standing in a test. There is talk of Billy Bowden (he of the crooked finger and extravagant boundary signalling) standing in the next test in some capacity so that has to help but surely the other six test playing nations can muster up a few more umpires worthy of being raised to the elite panel! 

[SA Chris]

there are a total of 12 elite umpires but eight of those are either English or Australian which leaves only four available for selection

Surely even a luddite like me can see the stupidity of this situation?? There have to be other capable umpires out there.

[Grubes]

looking at wikipeadia there is not much variety out there:
4 england
4 Australia
1 Pakistan
1 New zealand
1 South Africa
1 Sri Lanka

No one from windies or india

Rauf I understand the reasons but I am suprised bowden was dropped. I did not realise bowden was dropped so recently from the elite list (June?) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-2348044/Youre-Umpires-Rauf-Bowden-dismissed-international-Elite-Panel.html

[tomtom]

£200k PA to be an elite umpire....

I'm in.

[SA Chris]

easy money - travel the world, get to watch some great cricket from the best seat in the house, waggle your hands occasionally and make so crap decisions.

[tomtom]

The whole DRS debate is really interesting though... and especially related to football. Some of the pundits on TMS admire how football has not bowed to it, whereas most footy pundits thing it should be introduced..

Personally I think it should be wholly at the umpires discretion - like it used to be with runouts.. so if they're not sure they refer it and etc...

[Moo]

Oh dear ...........

[Grubes]

what the fuck. We ordered a shit ton of rain all day! Now englands batting and cooks gone for a duck

  todays supposed to be a wash out.

Its pretty dark this side of the pennines get them to get there light metres out!

[Moo]

Oh dear oh dear ..............

[Grubes]

bloody rain today is no help either.
a big drypatch around manc between two large patches of rain.

[GraemeA]

Match abonded. The Urn stays at Lord's 

[rich d]

So retained the ashes thanks to the weather.  Old trafford was great yesterday, nearly saw a full days play, drank shed loads of pints, got a bit of a suntan (no idea how) and had a bit of a sing.

Although the ground is huge I wasn't that impressed with it, also the rent a stewards weren't that friendly.
My favourite ground is Trent bridge, friendly, loads of toilets and loads of bars, seems really set up for the fans.

[GraemeA]

No, we have retained the Ashes because we are 2-0 up after 3 Tests.

And don't forget that we had them in the first place because we hammered them in Oz last time round.

We were about 10 yards from the stairs to the Convicts dressing room yesterday so were able to give Warner lots of abuse from close range. Merv Hughes and his tour group were just in front of us so they got some stick as well.

I thought OT was much better than it used to be, never had to queue for beer, they had expanded the number of food outlets and the extra bogs that they installed meant not having to queue more than a couple of minutes for a piss.

Agree about the stewards but they are like that everywhere these days. However I was mightily impressed with the beer snake on the temp stand, don't think I have ever seen one that big - I was surprised the stewards didn't stop it.

[rich d]

We were sat near the beer snake, quite a laugh. Good number of Aussies too who were good value too. Class day out.

[rich d]

No, we have retained the Ashes because we are 2-0 up after 3 Tests.

More meant that we retained the ashes TODAY because o the weather, reckon we'll beat them in the next 2. I still don't think we're firing as a team which is weird as we've retained the ashes faster than anytime since 1900 and something. Watching Anderson just get one wicket is pretty much a one off, can only imagine him storming back and destroying them.

Did you have a go on the bowling nets round the back? I managed a measly 43 mph, but line and length were perfectly in the corridor of uncertainty. My mate bowled it nearly sideways at 21mph and the steward had to fetch it from underneath some bins round the back. 

[Jaspersharpe]

Ha ha! Class.

[butters]

The whole DRS debate is really interesting though... and especially related to football. Some of the pundits on TMS admire how football has not bowed to it, whereas most footy pundits thing it should be introduced..

Personally I think it should be wholly at the umpires discretion - like it used to be with runouts.. so if they're not sure they refer it and etc...

Even though they are introducing Hawkeye to all PL games this year the comparisons are not really all that valid in that the technology is place is so different and it is implemented very differently.

Without doubt the DRS system in cricket needs revising in relation to the LBW rule and probably the umpires call rule but the main issue seems to be that the umpires are not 100% certain what they are doing which is not helped by only having the four available to officiate in this series. The other issue is that the technology is introduced almost as soon as it is available and gives the impression that is is undergoing final testing in the field - Hotspot especially is variable in the results that it produces. There was a bit on TMS yesterday lunchtime with Simon Hughes covering this available here* and also gives some details on the tests that they are running where the 3rd umpire has a devoted feed from the TV companies (think that's right) so they get to see stuff a lot quicker and can hopefully come to a decision sooner.

Not sure that it should all be at the umpires digression either - as soon as it was introduced for run out decisions then even obvious run outs were being referred up to the 3rd umpire. The technology should be there for the tight decisions and not as a catch all for every decision required.

* The Simon Hughes bit is after an interview with Gary Neville - worth listening to that too IMO.

[Jaspersharpe]

Yeah the point I was trying to make earlier was to do with the fact that these four umpires are the only ones available.

This seems like a crazy situation and has more bearing than the technicalities of DRS imo. I agree that it needs tweaking (and in the ways mentioned) but the biggest issue in this series has been the inability of the third umpire to get it right despite the technology available.

The shocking decisions have gone either way though so the age old rule of things evening themselves out seems to still hold water DRS or not.

ANYWAY! Let's push on and win the series 4-0 now. I also agree that England have been far from their best and can tonk these fuckers if they can get somewhere near it.

[butters]

Yeah the point I was trying to make earlier was to do with the fact that these four umpires are the only ones available.

Been searching on and off without success for something that states who the nominations from the International Panel have been and whether anyone has in fact turned down the offer to join the Elite Panel as even I can not believe that the ICC have not seen this issue coming but then the ICC do prove the rule regarding truth being stranger than fiction on a fairly regular basis.   

[Grubes]

do all three(/four) umpries need to be from the elite panel?

The panel was first established in April 2002 when the ICC decided to reform the way that international cricket was umpired. The main change was that both umpires in a Test match and one of the umpires in a One-day international are now independent of the competing nations, whereas before 2002 just one of the umpires in a Test was independent and in ODIs both umpires were from the home nation.

The wiki entry does not say anything about the third umpire. I guess this could be why the crocked finger of doom might be making a come back. However I guess he would only be allowed to be third umpire?

[GraemeA]

Wow. Can I have Broadie's babies