[Paul B]

But why bother when they can just get people to pay more?

The thing is they're still selling new contracts with the 3gb FUP today without informing people. Plus, youtube, spotify (or an equivalent?) is pushed heavily on their site. XDA developers have tonnes of conflicting quotes.

The main reason for purchasing a phone like this for me is so that I can access these services whilst away (like in Pembroke this year), thats a month away from home broadband and significant data use.

[Jaspersharpe]

Just seen something on Twitter about Ofcom saying "clause 9.3" is applicable and that customers have the right to cancel their T-Moblie contracts.

This sounds interesting.....

[slackline]

Just seen something on Twitter about Ofcom saying "clause 9.3" is applicable and that customers have the right to cancel their T-Moblie contracts.

This sounds interesting.....

Could you re-tweet that (or link to the tweet hear please).

[Jaspersharpe]

There's no further info on the tweet and I Googled but without success. Presumably it's just happened....

http://twitter.com/munkimatt/status/24846783104425984

[slackline]

Ok, cool, cheers for that though, favourited.

Time to dig out the  and look up what item 9.3 is. 

[Paul B]

Its not on your contract 9.3 is the release clause stipulated in ofcoms license to T-mobile allowing users to end their contract free of charge if a material breach of contract is made.

T-mobile refused and in store return. Refused to cancel, told me a load of shit. I've now spoken to Ofcom (unaware of the tweet but he hit me back saying he was piecing something together). Biggest bunch of CVNTS ever.

[slackline]

Yes, just read that guys twitter posts, which pieced together read...

OFCOM have stated their clause 9.3 is applicable. Customer has right to cancel T-Mobile contracts.

For those asking, 9.3 is as follows; Where the Communications Provider intends to modify a condition in a contract with a Consumer which...is likely to be of material detriment tothe Consumer, the Communications Provider shall:

(a) provide the Consumer with at least one month’s notice of its intention detailing the proposed modification; and
(b) inform the Consumer of the ability to terminate the contract without penalty if the proposed modification is not acceptable to Consumer

All I can see happening is that T-Mobile push back the date on which they implement in order to comply, so there's likely a very small window of opportunity to cancel contracts starting from now!

Interestingly whilst quickly looking for more information on this I stumbled across this article on Ofcom which indicatest that 2G bandwidth is now available for 3G data, thus increasing general capacity for 3G data usage on all networks.  So why are companies now reeling in data usage when they've actually got more bandwidth available.

Likely some useful information to be found here somewhere

[Paul B]

well at worst I'm stuck with them, at best I'll get two free smartphones...

[Jaspersharpe]

I don't read it like that slackers.

It says provide the customer with a month's notice AND inform them of the ability to terminate the contract without penalty.

If this is applied then surely everyone can rip up their T-Mobile contract and walk away (with their phones)?

[slackline]

Damn, missed the conditional logic at the end of the first clause.

They don't call you Sharpe for nothing   

[Jim]

I would return the phone and cancel the contract and say you were mis-sold which I think you were and threaten to go to ofcom if they don't comply. If you still can't cancel then complain to ofcom anyway. Fuck em in their big coporate arses I say

[slackline]

On the topic of mis-selling just found What is mobile mis-selling? on Ofcom which links to a more comprehensive PDF.

[Paul B]

I would return the phone and cancel the contract and say you were mis-sold which I think you were and threaten to go to ofcom if they don't comply. If you still can't cancel then complain to ofcom anyway. Fuck em in their big coporate arses I say

Tried that. The guy would have actually been more useful if he said "Fuck Off" instead.

I've been to Ofcom and reg'd a complaint already, and consumer direct and trading standards.

[Jaspersharpe]

Can't really see how T-Mobile are going to get away with this if that information re Ofcom is correct. There's no way they can afford to let thousands of customers cancel their contracts and keep their (heavily subsidised) phones so what do they do?

[slackline]

And I've finally found a copy of the document with Condition 9.3 (page 22).

Its "Notification under Section 48(1) of the Communications act 2003...Notification setting general conditions under section 45 of the communications act 2003"

9. REQUIREMENT TO OFFER CONTRACTS WITH MINIMUM TERMS
9.1 The Communications Provider shall, in offering to provide, or providing,
Public Electronic Communications Services to a Consumer, and on the
request of that Consumer, offer to enter into a contract or vary an
existing contract with that Consumer which complies with paragraph
9.2.
9.2 Any contract between the Communications Provider and a Consumer
shall specify the following minimum requirements:
(a) the identity and address of the Communications Provider;
(b) the services provided, details of the service quality levels offered
and the time for initial connection;
(c) details of maintenance services offered;
(d) particulars of prices and tariffs, and the means by which up-todate
information on all applicable tariffs and maintenance
charges may be obtained;
(e) the duration of the contract, the conditions for renewal and
termination of services and of the contract;
(f) any applicable compensation and/or refund arrangements which
will apply if contracted quality service levels are not met; and
(g) the method of initiating procedures for settlement of disputes in
respect of the contract.
9.3 Where the Communications Provider intends to modify a condition in a
contract with a Consumer which is likely to be of material detriment to
the Consumer, the Communications Provider shall:
(a) provide the Consumer with at least one month’s notice of its
intention detailing the proposed modification; and
(b) inform the Consumer of the ability to terminate the contract
without penalty if the proposed modification is not acceptable to
the Consumer.
9.4 For the purposes of this Condition,
(a) “Communications Provider” means a person who provides
Public Electronic Communications Services, excluding any
service which is a broadcast of television programmes for
general reception in, or in any area in, the United Kingdom,
where every member of the intended audience of such a service
is able to receive that service in an intelligible form and free of
charge;
(b) “Consumer” means any natural person who uses or requests a
Public Electronic Communications Service for purposes which
are outside his or her trade, business or profession.

[slackline]

And as PaulB has pointed out those who purchased directly from T-Mobile may have another way of getting out, see here

[Paul B]

Progress, an empathising manager who seems to understand "why" people aren't happy.

[Stubbs]

As it seems I don't need to give them any notice to terminate my contract in this case I'm going to give it a few days and see what happens, I got a bill today and that didn't have any info about this hidden in an extra page...

[slackline]

Progress, an empathising manager who seems to understand "why" people aren't happy.

He can empathise all he wants, but unless he gives you your money back and accepts that you've been mis-sold it means dick all (but its reassuring there are people out there who aren't just drones and can think for themselves).

[Paul B]

hmmm you do, 14 days and before the implementation of the changes as I understand it currently?

He's getting there slackers, just delaying so he can process Nats contract as well, not sure whether to play ball though as its a cancellation and returns.

[Stubbs]

Seeing they have to give me a month's notice as per the above contract, I've got some time yet!

[Jaspersharpe]

not sure whether to play ball though as its a cancellation and returns.

Don't return anything.

It's there in black and white in the Ofcom document, they haven't got a leg to stand on.

Seeing they have to give me a month's notice as per the above contract, I've got some time yet!

It seems YOU have as much time as you like. It is them who should be informing you of your right to terminate. I can't see anywhere where it says there's a time limit on your decision to terminate "if the proposed modification is not acceptable".

I'm no lawyer but that clause looks cut and dry. Where's Sloper? 

[Paul B]

Pushy push, push, push!

3GB re-instated here.

[dave]

how did you manage that ?

[Paul B]

how did you manage that ?

I'd like to say it was easy but after taking advice from
direct.gov
trading standards
& Ofcom

amongst a whole host of tweeted information I started to go through their official complaints procedure to ensure I've done everything right with a view of taking it up with CISAS or as more information came to light; to write and tell them "its over".

Finally I got a manager who clearly understood what they're imposing is bullshit and the advice that conflicts with your rights under their telecoms license after quoting enough clauses at him he offered it. He was looking at what they're advised to say to you [use your home broadband] and laughing an earlier operative tried that one and I asked whether BT told her to use her mobile?

I think as my contract has just been taken out and I was heavily labouring the "point I would have gone elsewhere and you sold me this..." I had the upper hand as they couldn't really refute "Material Detriment" in this case as they haven't got my monthly usage to back them up. (Mention NAS drive streaming to really confuse them).

I think I was completely within my rights to cancel in writing and block direct debits etc. but this seemed like unnecessary hassle, if they hadn't done this (tonight), the letters were already drafted and I now have that data guaranteed for the length of the contract (in writing). I'm not wholly convinced they won't try and pull something similar that will break this at a later date at which point I'll be informing them that I'm gone.