[Johnny Brown]

No, because improving schools and improving the NHS benefits everyone. Those two above only help those who are:

a) Already quite well off
b) Don't give much of a fuck about the rest of society

Therefore a clear bribe for votes...

I understand how you arrive at a), but b) is just your prejudice isn't it?

[tc]

And now for some news on the Labour leadership battle:

Owen Smith goes to Orgreave and pretends to give a fuck about the Miners' Strike. Another PR stunt from a scab in an expensive suit. If he really gave a shit he would have signed the Early Day motions on Orgreave like Corbyn did. He's a fake, like far too many of our MPs.

[seankenny]

And now for some news on the Labour leadership battle:

Owen Smith goes to Orgreave and pretends to give a fuck about the Miners' Strike. Another PR stunt from a scab in an expensive suit. If he really gave a shit he would have signed the Early Day motions on Orgreave like Corbyn did. He's a fake, like far too many of our MPs.

If I understand it correctly, he was a member of the Shadow Cabinet at the time, whereas EDMs are only signed by backbenchers.

It's like we have a complex Parliamentary system to manage our public affairs and, I don't know, people don't give a shit or something.

[galpinos]

(sigh)...yeah, you're right -- I've lost the plot. It's all cool really, the politicians are all working selflessly to represent the interests of the poor and disenfranchised, Labour represents a credible opposition to those nice Conservatives, corporate influence is merely a conspiracy theory I came up with during a particularly vibrant acid flashback, we can trust the system implicitly and I'm looking forward to celebrating the birthday of our Glorious New Leader, Kim-jong May. I'm all better now, nurse.

(warning: the above post may contain traces of sarcasm)

and tin foil hattery........

[tc]

Accusing someone you disagree with of being a conspiracy theorist is a good ploy to use if you want to shut down public debate. Well done. You should get a job in politics.

[seankenny]

Accusing someone you disagree with of being a conspiracy theorist is a good ploy to use if you want to shut down public debate. Well done. You should get a job in politics.

But the problem is, in the last year or so conspiracy theories have become much more widespread. Are you saying we must indulge all the crazies in their craziness?

[Somebody's Fool]

Another way of phrasing 'I don't believe in conspiracy theories' is 'I believe everything I read in the papers.'

If governments were as honourable as they tell us they are, do you think Assange would still be chilling in the Ecuadorean embassy?

[tc]

Don't believe everything you read in the papers!

[tc]

Accusing someone you disagree with of being a conspiracy theorist is a good ploy to use if you want to shut down public debate. Well done. You should get a job in politics.

But the problem is, in the last year or so conspiracy theories have become much more widespread. Are you saying we must indulge all the crazies in their craziness?

On what do you base this claim?

[Will Hunt]

Much of what is now written on this thread is just raving. It's so far removed from a dispassionate analysis of events that it has become meaningless. My point is that people's judgement is clearly being impeded by their own prejudices and thus much of what is being written is nonsensical.
A politician is now not allowed to wear an expensive suit, because of course, that would make them evil. The very ownership of an expensive suit is akin to being in the pocket of Beelzebub.
People are not even allowed to want to become involved in politics anymore, because that would make them self-serving careerists. Unless of course they are left wing socialists, in which case they are champions of the people.
Politicians are now not allowed to say things like "I'll scrap tuition fees" or "I'll ensure that benefits payments to the disabled are increased by x%" because it would be seen as buying votes. Although actually, I'm sure they would be allowed to say that if they were not Conservatives or centrist Labour politicians.
People are not allowed to enter and rise to a senior position in politics if a family member is already involved, because that would be de facto nepotism. Unless your surname is Sanders, of course, in which case it's fine.


Is it time for a lock and log?

[tc]

My prejudice only extends to the evil, devil-worshiping, self-serving careerists and bribery merchants. The rest of them are fine. Apart from the nepotists, of course. Oh, and the ones in suits. 

 

[tomtom]

Sounds like a conspiracy theory about conspiracy theories to me!

[webbo]

.
 The very ownership of an expensive suit is akin to being in the pocket of Beelzebub.

Fuck now I know why no one makes eye contact or speaks to me at work anymore.

[tomtom]

.
 The very ownership of an expensive suit is akin to being in the pocket of Beelzebub.

Fuck now I know why no one makes eye contact or speaks to me at work anymore.

Maybe I should start wearing one at work... Good plan.

[Nigel]

Is it time for a lock and log?

No. Have a look at the name of the thread again.

Lots of "conspiracy theories" have a habit of coming true so I don't see that defence as much use. To caveat that, I'm talking "establishment vs the people" conspiracy theories, not aliens abducted Freddie Starr who at my hamster stuff. To take recent UK examples - Hillsborough (!), police officers leading decade long double lives to infiltrate environmental (!) groups, governments retaining data on most of its citizens, intelligence service and politicians lying us into Iraq war, preposterous numbers of high profile peados who were definitely known about. If that's not enough then I'm sure you can find plenty more like that. Point being that being somewhat sceptical of the political system, as tc appears to be, is not an irrational position. Obviously there are some outlandish claims made every now and again but shouting about tin foil at everything doesn't help shine a light. That way even the young children who died at Hillsborough would still be drunken hooligans who brought it on themselves. Anyway, its not even made of tin.

[webbo]

.
 The very ownership of an expensive suit is akin to being in the pocket of Beelzebub.

Fuck now I know why no one makes eye contact or speaks to me at work anymore.

Maybe I should start wearing one at work... Good plan.

I thought you worked from home these days. Other than when you are not frightening children and animals by appearing on the telly.

[seankenny]

The very ownership of an expensive suit is akin to being in the pocket of Beelzebub.

These people live in a world where meeting an accountancy firm is a crime but working for a bunch of torture apologists simply isn't a problem.

Lock and log? If only we could.

[tc]

Is it time for a lock and log?

Point being that being somewhat sceptical of the political system, as tc appears to be, is not an irrational position.

Thanks for that, marra. I thought I was one my own there for a moment. To clarify, it's not the political system per se that I take issue with (although I do believe that improvements need to be made) but the self-serving, self-righteous political elite with their lies (e.g Hillsborough, Iraq), deception (e.g. the Brexit campaign, MPs expenses) and their shabby brand positioning that masquerades as political beliefs (e.g. Smith at Orgreave and other politicians passim).