Quote from: chris j on July 19, 2016, 01:59:32 pmGiven how likely Corbyn is to be re-elected by a large proportion of the members, the constituencies are really going to have to bite the bullet and have a mass deselection of the PLP as it stands and select some candidates that can at least not actively oppose him.Will he? Is he popular with Labour members? Of the people I know, the ones who support JC are the metropolitan left who are the £3 supporters, a lot of whom I guess can't vote in this election. The actual Labour members (i.e. the guys in my office, paid up labour members, would vote for anything with a red rosette etc) think he's a shite leader and want him out. I realise this isn't exactly a great sample but anything else is apparently anti-Corbyn media spin or Corbynistas preaching to the converted.
Given how likely Corbyn is to be re-elected by a large proportion of the members, the constituencies are really going to have to bite the bullet and have a mass deselection of the PLP as it stands and select some candidates that can at least not actively oppose him.
Will he? Is he popular with Labour members?......It'd be fascinating if it didn't mean a Tory government without opposition for god knows how long......
Corbyn. as somebody with fringe views, belongs on the back benches, where he can influence the course of the party without sinking the ship.
What strikes me as the madness is the fact that Corbyn stood in parliament as leader of the Labour party and voted against Labour party policy. This then makes the PLP that don't support him the traitors to the party, despite voting along the lines set, democratically, by the party....
They're a member of the Party of European Socialists for fucks sake, and the guy they currently want to be leader is probably a bigger fucking capitalist than Thatcher.[\quote]When you find yourself typing things like this it's time time to consider that you might just be wrong? (Christ knows I have.) I read that as you don't like a bad taste, you do like hope, and the idea of a socialist world. To be achieved by purging the labour party of people who might get it into government. To do things like double spending on the NHS. What you'll get is proper Tories forever. But at least you'll feel good about yourself.
Quote They're a member of the Party of European Socialists for fucks sake, and the guy they currently want to be leader is probably a bigger fucking capitalist than Thatcher. [\quote]When you find yourself typing things like this it's time time to consider that you might just be wrong? (Christ knows I have.) I read that as you don't like a bad taste, you do like hope, and the idea of a socialist world. To be achieved by purging the labour party of people who might get it into government. To do things like double spending on the NHS. What you'll get is proper Tories forever. But at least you'll feel good about yourself.Principles not power John........ Who cares if you actually do any good, as long as your principled. Never compromise.
They're a member of the Party of European Socialists for fucks sake, and the guy they currently want to be leader is probably a bigger fucking capitalist than Thatcher. [\quote]When you find yourself typing things like this it's time time to consider that you might just be wrong? (Christ knows I have.) I read that as you don't like a bad taste, you do like hope, and the idea of a socialist world. To be achieved by purging the labour party of people who might get it into government. To do things like double spending on the NHS. What you'll get is proper Tories forever. But at least you'll feel good about yourself.
Principles not power John........ Who cares if you actually do any good, as long as your principled. Never compromise.
Perhaps you genuinely think anyone who sees practical good in promoting socialism is a homeless raving maniac idealist with no sense of pragmatism. Perhaps.
Quote from: galpinos on July 20, 2016, 08:55:39 amPrinciples not power John........ Who cares if you actually do any good, as long as your principled. Never compromise.I'm going to hazard a guess that there is a degree of sarcasm in that....
Look at the shit the Lib Dems did when they compromised their principles manifesto pledges in order to try and effect a radical change to the political system. Very much a case of...Damned if you do [stick to your principles], and damned if you don't [even if its to try and make a huge change].
Quote from: slackline on July 20, 2016, 09:08:56 amLook at the shit the Lib Dems did when they compromised their principles manifesto pledges in order to try and effect a radical change to the political system. Very much a case of...Damned if you do [stick to your principles], and damned if you don't [even if its to try and make a huge change].I think the Lib Dems did the right thing. They were naive going into the coalition and paid the price but I prefer the coalition government to that which we have now.
I do think, as some have said, that Labour needs a much stronger leader. But who would that be? There don't seem to be any credible alternatives. I look forward to corbyn winning and mandatory re-selection of MPs. Yes, this might confine labour to the doldrums for a while, but at the far end there might be some hope that the new raft of MPs might produce a few credible alternative leaders.
Perhaps you interpreted my comment that way because you're projecting your own self narrative. Perhaps you genuinely think anyone who sees practical good in promoting socialism is a homeless raving maniac idealist with no sense of pragmatism. Perhaps.
No - his support outside his own narrow constituency is smallhttps://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/07/19/jeremy-corbyn-support-rises-among-party-members/No - Labour is a broad church and his isn'tNo - See aboveMaybe - But I still want an effective opposition and Smith looks a lot more like it than Jesus
So do I, but many, including some here on UKB (e.g. tomtom ) have written that they can not forgive them for reneging on their pledges such as not to raise tuition fees.This is a shame because it fails to acknowledge they weren't the majority, that reforming the electoral system was also one of their manifesto pledges, and that they took a gamble to effect a real and dramatic change to our political system and in doing so had to make compromises on other aspects.