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Balls to Fiend (The Football Thread) (Read 1344254 times)

nai

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#5675 Re: Balls to Fiend (The Football Thread)
December 06, 2019, 11:05:13 am
So is a linesman flagging now redundant.

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#5676 Re: Balls to Fiend (The Football Thread)
December 06, 2019, 12:38:11 pm
So is a linesman flagging now redundant.

In European comps they’re told to keep their flags down even if it’s obviously offside because VAR will sort it out either way. For some reason most British commentators still seem to shout “The flag’s stayed down!!!” in those situations though...

While in the Premier League where we seemingly want to have VAR but also pretend that we don’t they’re told to do the opposite and raise their flags if they think it’s offside even though they might be overturned. It’s the players’ responsibility to remember to keep playing even if the flag’s up. You could forgive teams who also play in Europe for getting confused but that doesn’t apply to Blairds, or Newcastle for that matter.

Funny (for a neutral) watching replays of Shelvey’s goal on TV after it was given- all involved were obviously certain that it wouldn’t stand.  :lol:

VAR’s such a mess, particularly in the UK. For most decisions it just seems like handing them over to a random result generator, for offsides it highlights that the law needs changing now it can be judged in such pinpoint accuracy after the fact- the only way to get offside back to its original purpose now (in my opinion) would be to switch it so a player’s only offside if their entire body is ahead of a defender. It’s just meant to stop goal-hanging after all.

VAR seems to work so well in rugby and cricket. No idea how long it took that lot to sort it out but I feel like football’s popularity makes it hard for proper changes to happen- those sports seem so keen to enhance their popularity that they’re open to tweaks whereas football doesn’t have that catalyst. So much of what we know and (in some cases) love about football is actually against the strict laws of the game too! Fuck knows how it can all be resolved.

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#5677 Re: Balls to Fiend (The Football Thread)
December 06, 2019, 01:52:39 pm
I’d suggest it’s taken 10 years or so of refinement for it to be fairly well accepted in cricket..

Tennis less. Maybe in tennis there are fewer variables (over a line or not)

nai

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#5678 Re: Balls to Fiend (The Football Thread)
December 06, 2019, 02:07:37 pm

In European comps they’re told to keep their flags down even if it’s obviously offside because VAR will sort it out either way

Seems crazy to do anything else the way VAR is being used to try and sort everything to the letter of the law.
Wouldn't have wanbted to be those Utd defenders who stopped chasing, not like Sunday league where you yell at your sub who's runnig the line and he dutifully flags.

IN tennis they're experim,enting with no line judges and just letting Hawkeye make the calls. Guess it'll be implemented up through the tournaments eventually but it does add a bit of drama when players run out of challengesand there's a close one.

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#5679 Re: Balls to Fiend (The Football Thread)
December 06, 2019, 05:19:54 pm
Rugby is the best analogy with their video ref than cricket or tennis - where it’s generally for very specific things.

But tbh, I thought the TMO ruined a few of the rugby World Cup matches... still wasn’t consistent on when it was called in by the on pitch refs.

I think if you put a small rf linked accelerometer in the match ball it would be quite straightforward to have all off side decisions automatically and near instantly called.

Having a limited number of VaR challenges would also streamline the game a lot. At the moment it seems pretty random what gets called for a review or not - which seems to be a chunk of the problem. Maybe also a 5 second rule - so Anyrhing happening outside of that before a goal etc.. is ignored. When it gets drawn back 4 or 5 touches before to a dodgy foul it seems daft.

nai

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#5680 Re: Balls to Fiend (The Football Thread)
December 06, 2019, 06:29:59 pm
I think the ref should just run the game as-is with VAR monitoring it. Decisions should stand unless there's an absolute howler which is obviously wrong rather than just the VAR official's opinion differing to the refs, the sort of thing you only need look at once from the right angle and can say yep that's what happened, not something that needs repeated plaback in super-slo-mo.

And I kind of agree with cheque re the offside rule and being fully in front of the defender but I think it was changed from that to this just a few years back. We might just end up having the same but different dilemmas about being on/offside by milimeters.

Hopefully this season PL can be voided due to the farce, no title awarded, European and relegation spots decided by rock-paper-scissors.

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#5681 Re: Balls to Fiend (The Football Thread)
December 09, 2019, 11:01:09 am
Rugby, tennis and cricket are more disjointed games with natural break points that allow for "VAR" to be introduced.

Cricket has worked quite hard to make Hawkeye a spectacle, sitting at the top of the Foster's party stand at Old Trafford waiting for a decision to come in on the dig screen is pretty fun!

Rugby has a different approach to football in that the referral to the TMO is normally, "Any reason why I can't award the try", i.e. the default is the on field decision and it's a check to see if anything has been missed.

Football has the problem that the offside rule is rubbish (they should give the attacker the benefit of the doubt) and that they can't decide whether the on field decision is going to take precedent or whether they just keep playing until the VAR man talks in the ref's ear.

Anyway, I'm enjoying seeing Man City fall apart. Come on you Foxes!

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#5682 Re: Balls to Fiend (The Football Thread)
December 09, 2019, 11:15:36 am
Leicester look great don’t they? It seems so weird to me that they’re not being given any chance of winning the title. They’re obviously not a “big club” in the sense of having a huge trophy cabinet etc. but they’ve won the title more recently than most of the Big SixTM and a fair few of the players who did it then are still in the squad. They don’t have any European commitments either but the idea of 2016 being a blip seems so ingrained that the pundits just can’t seem to take them seriously still. I reckon they’ll win a trophy- as much as I’d love that to be the league I don’t think Liverpool will choke as much as we neutrals are hoping they will but hopefully it will still be interesting at that end of the table for a few more months.  :please:

City looked to have such a stranglehold just six months ago- amazing really.

Villa are an interesting one- clearly a better team than any of the other relegation contenders but without the knack of getting points out of hard games, no matter how well they play.

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#5683 Re: Balls to Fiend (The Football Thread)
December 09, 2019, 11:39:08 am
On only 3 occasions have the team at the top of the premier league at Christmas failed to win it. Liverpool each time! But surely they’ve got it bagged this year?! Great to see Leicester doing well and playing great football. Liverpool have been a bit scrappy in comparison.

The bottom of the league is quite interesting too like you say Mike, I think a team with 40+ Points will go down this season. I think Norwich will go down, Watford have too many good players to go down but are a long way behind already, but that 18th spot could be almost anyone at the moment.

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So Coronavirus hits the first Premier League, much to the detriment of my fantasy football team this week (got Aubameyang in for Vardy  :wall:) It could make future weeks even more interesting if more and more matches are getting cancelled and re-arranged. Also could mean Liverpool pick up their trophy in an empty stadium  :lol:

Some other musings now we're at the business end of the season  :worms:
-Spurs looked  completely disinterested last night, no effort at all, worrying for their fans. No European football for them next season
-Big game for Liverpool tonight, I think they'll do it with "the 12th man of Anfield"
-Wolves/Man U looks most likely to pick up those 5th/6th spots
-Man City really struggle without KDB this season - but if he stays fit I think they'll win the Champions League
-I still maintain Watford will stay up, and actually think Villa will stay up
-Coventry City for automatic promotion from League 1. Playing great football out from the back - football has got much more interesting to watch since more teams across the divisions now try this
-VAR controversy seems to have calmed down a bit recently? Or are just sick of talking about it?
 :worms:

Adam Lincoln

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 I think man u will steal 4th. Or is that just me holding out desperate hope.

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Another magical European night at Anfield.  :lol:


spidermonkey09

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I'm not a Liverpool supporter but I really enjoy watching them play; that had me very frustrated last night! Classic heist from Atletico who deserved it really; so clinical where Liverpool were wasteful and crucially a competent goalkeeper. Given the luck Liverpool had in the CL last year they can't really complain.

mark20

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I love watching Liverpool in the champions league. Another great game to watch but Liverpool really should have scored 2 or 3 to finish it in the 2nd half. Chelsea are pretty much out so just Man City left representing England now.

Liverpool supporters this morning

cheque

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Classic heist from Atletico who deserved it really; so clinical where Liverpool were wasteful and crucially a competent goalkeeper.

 :agree: Absolutely superb tactically from Athletico- amazing defensive performance and a masterclass in how to beat opponents who are essentially better than you. Would have been presented as another fabled Liverpool European victory if the roles had been reversed.

Adrian will of course bear the brunt of the blame ("Keeper's dodgy- test him from range" was obviously part of said tactics) but the defending for the second Athletico goal was surreal- the idea that they might be interested in scoring another didn't seem to cross any of the defenders' minds. You can't help but feel like their fantastically long period of undiluted success (and the inevitable fatigue of keeping it up) is working against Liverpool mentally in the last month or so.

spidermonkey09

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Games like that are essentially how Chelsea won the Champions League!

Atletico had a lot of luck; not sure they defended all that well really, Liverpool's finishing was just really poor. Should have scored 3 or 4 if we're honest. They did stick at it really well though, would have been easy to just think 'this lot are too good, they'll score eventually'.

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Having withdrawal symptoms so spent 20 mins watching an old FA cup match on iplayer whilst doing a few jobs.
Everton vs Ipswich 1985
Awful pitch, brutal tackling, some sublime moments of skill - Sheedy free kicks and I'd swear the ref was match fixing.
Surprisingly entertaining.

cheque

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This is a good watch:



This too (probably won’t be appreciated by Blairds fans so much though)



Bonus:


mark20

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For those in need of their fix there are plenty of videos on social media of footballers doing keepie-uppies with bog rolls...
or various club documentations on Netflix/Amazon. I've just started watching Sunderland Til I Die which was recommended on here a while back, very good so far. Man City, Stevie Gerrard, 'Class of 92', Leeds 'Take us home' ( :sick:) all on Amazon Prime at the moment

cheque

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I've just started watching Sunderland Til I Die which was recommended on here a while back, very good so far.

New series about to start too.

Did you watch the Maradona documentary when it was on Channel 4 last Saturday?

We had a look at BT Sport this lunchtime just to see what the hell they were showing in the absence of, well, sport- spent an hour watching Scottish Premiership hols of the season then some sort of Champions League history show.  :popcorn:

tomtom

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I see that Burnley and Arsenal won their games tonight... 🤔

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tomtom

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On Wigan. Bloody hell.

https://twitter.com/marksparko/status/1279000646335836163

Blimey - bankrupt a club to win a bet... mental.

At the time of the take-over,  my brother pointed me to this utterly take-down of why would anyone sane want to buy Wigan. Worth reading just for the brutal headline.

https://www.scmp.com/sport/hong-kong/article/2132655/why-would-hong-kong-based-casino-owner-want-buy-league-one-club

 

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