[tomtom]

David Squires cartoon is excellent this week!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2021/feb/23/david-squires-on-footballs-latest-youth-takeover

[GraemeA]

It's been a long wait. Just over 47 years and nine visits before we we won again at Wembley 

Mind you the Skunks haven't even been to Wembley since 1955 

Ps can we have a pizza emoji please.

[cheque]

If you’re counting Sunderland as having had nine appearances at Wembley in 47 years then you can only count Newcastle as not having been there since 1988- they played in the Mercantile Credit Football Festival too.

[cheque]

They also played there in the ‘96 Charity Shield, the ‘98 & ‘99 FA Cup Finals, the 2000 FA Cup semis and twice when it was Spurs’ home ground.

[cheque]

 

[tomtom]

RE: SUPERLEAGUE! (tm)

Am I alone in  - err - not really giving a shit whether this goes ahead or not?

The top flight seems so far up its own money making cavity that this seems (a) unsurprising and (b) almost inevitable?

Or is this just a cynical standard ploy to for the top clubs to leverage more £££ out of the next TV rights deal?

[cheque]

I reckon the leagues/ organisations should just let them go. I’d love to be able to watch football without the richest clubs and ignore their pointless moneyleague.

Realistically though they surely know that it’s a daft idea. The pandemic and resultant income loss has just forced them to pursue the nuclear option. It’s literally on the eve of the announcement to changes to the Champions League that don’t go far enough for them- they want to be in it every year whether they qualify or not and I’m pretty sure that this will result in them being given that, just adapting the Champions League to be (even) more like this non-competitive Superleague bullshit. Too little’s been done over the last three decades to stop it reaching this point sadly.

Interested to hear what supporters of the “big 6” clubs think about it.

[petejh]

RE: SUPERLEAGUE! (tm)

Am I alone in  - err - not really giving a shit whether this goes ahead or not?

The top flight seems so far up its own money making cavity that this seems (a) unsurprising and (b) almost inevitable?

Or is this just a cynical standard ploy to for the top clubs to leverage more £££ out of the next TV rights deal?

You're most likely not alone, but I'd guess from the reaction so far that you're in a minority.

Sport at the highest levels is a business but so is theatre, film, literature and many other creative pursuits. But it isn't the business part that makes them great for the soul. When business takes front and centre it risks corroding the part that makes sport and arts so special. Same could be said for the natural world. I think this puts the tail in charge of the dog and I'm against the ESL proposals based on what's currently known.

I was first taken by my dad to watch Liverpool when I was about 8 and have watched them ever since. If the ESL does go ahead as planned then I'll likely lose interest and will turn my back on that little part of my life. Maybe the younger generations will enjoy it, I think they're brainwashed enough by big business to sell their souls online every day so maybe they'll sell their souls to an investment banker's vision of a low-risk football league.

[SA Chris]

Is it intended to be a breakaway from the Premiership, or as well as?

If it's a breakaway, is the English Premiership in a similar situation to Scottish Premiership where a lot of the lower table clubs rely on gate receipts from the Old Firm games to keep them going through the season? Will the lower table English clubs struggle financially as a result?

[tomtom]

Some of the justification from the big six seems to be that Covid has caused them to lose money - so they need to recoup this. Whilst having a shit (seemed appropriate :D) the thought came to me that this was a bit like coming up with a new Ponzi scheme because the last Ponzi scheme was starting to fail

[cheque]

The mooted idea is that the 6 English clubs would continue to play in the Premier League (It hasn’t been called the Premiership in England since 2001) but play in the Superleague midweek instead of the champions league/ Europa league etc. Presumably the same for the Spanish and Italian teams and their domestic leagues.

It’s also supposed to be the same fifteen founder clubs no matter what, plus 5 others who qualify as a result of the domestic league performance (presumably those who finish highest in each of the five biggest European leagues- Premier League, Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga & Ligue Un) so there’d be quite a bit of cooperation required from the domestic leagues. It’s further complicated by Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund & Paris Saint Germain (obviously the three other planned founding clubs) ruling themselves out of it so there’s currently no German or French involvement in it.

Realistically the domestic leagues are not going to agree to that so it would have to be a breakaway.

is the English Premiership in a similar situation to Scottish Premiership where a lot of the lower table clubs rely on gate receipts from the Old Firm games to keep them going through the season? Will the lower table English clubs struggle financially as a result?

Not really, but I imagine the plan is to make them shit themselves enough to go along with compromised plans that give the massive clubs the powers they want, ie. getting the Champions League money every season even if their team didn’t play well enough to deserve it the season before. Premier League clubs make most of their money from TV deals now (when clubs with small grounds get promoted to the PL they don’t necessarily expand their grounds any more) and obviously they’d be scared that they wouldn’t get so much TV cash of the Indian broadcaster (for example) only wants to pay for the Superleague not the Premier League.

It’s a bit different on the continent where there’s an even bigger gap between the richest few clubs and the rest of the top flight. The Scottish Premiership model of two clubs that are bigger than all the others put together is more comparable with the Belgian, Swiss, Greek, Turkish leagues etc. though.

[Bradders]

This whole thing just serves as a nice reminder that football is shit and I'm glad I don't follow it anymore!

[Falling Down]

As a lifelong City fan I’m really dismayed but ultimately not surprised that they have signed up to this.  My interest has declined somewhat in recent years since we won the league several times and especially over the last year and I wonder if todays news is time to draw the line. I was looking forward to us perhaps winning the CL for the first time but now that just seems pointless with this announcement. 

Slightly off-topic, but I found and bought a proper glass bottle of Vimto over the weekend in our corner shop.  I learned that it’s huge in Saudi Arabia and other arab countries during Ramadan and it still has an old-skool label and glass bottle shape like in the 70’s.  I was telling W about how I used to drink it at my Grandparent’s house when I was tiny before and after going to watch City in the mid-70’s.  Jumpers for goal posts eh?

[SA Chris]

Amazing that a drink with a name that's an anagram for vomit has lasted so long.

[James Malloch]

Without really knowing anything about it, I'm really surprised to see the reaction to the proposed "Super League" with even No. 10 saying they will do what they can to stop it.

Independent on whether fans like the idea - is there precedent for attempting to legislate to stop private businesses undertaking a new enterprise? From what I've read I don't like the sound of it, but at the same time I can't see how it could be stopped?

I can imagine the FA saying that it's either Super League or Premier League (won't be fully match-fit for our league or something along those lines) but it seems odd to stop private businesses expanding. I guess there's loads more to it than I know though...

[tomtom]

Independent on whether fans like the idea - is there precedent for attempting to legislate to stop private businesses undertaking a new enterprise? From what I've read I don't like the sound of it, but at the same time I can't see how it could be stopped?

Quite - amazed that Boris etc.. has waded in saying he'll do his best to stop it... not very libertarian/tory etc... :D

Not that he's appealing to a certain voting group of course....

[Falling Down]

Sports lawyer in the FT comments section had this to say “ It is anti-competitive. EU granted exemptions to football associations and UEFA and FIFA because of the specificity of the sport (eg the EUCJ  'Bernard' case).  and the social and educational function of it. When it becomes only commercial, the EU law and in particular anti-competition rules will fully apply.”

[Wellsy]

It is a bit rich to hear people from organisations like the Premier League and the Champions League complaining about someone making a league in order to generate huge amounts of money. Not like us, in the Premier League, nooo. We're nothing like that. We're good and pure us, champions of the beautiful game etc.

Like yeah it's a money grubbing cash grab. Of course it is. It's top end football! It's all about money grubbing cash grabs. If the Big Six fucked off from English Football I wouldn't miss them remotely. We'd have a much more competitive top flight, which would be much more entertaining to watch. That said it is interesting to see them negotiate with the PL. Cos the PL has said they might get banned from playing PL matches if they join this new league... but the PL kinda needs the Big Six (as in, the PL as a money making body etc)

[petejh]

Unequivocal cross party opposition in parliament.

I can’t see how this plays out to be anything other than a huge own goal on the part of the owners of the 6 British clubs involved. If they try to push it through then I can see a moment of cultural shift here, there are bigger issues than just ‘football’ at work. I think the tories probably sense the danger.

[Andy F]

I hope the fans vote with their feet and refuse to attend the games in this new league.
As a lifelong Liverpool fan I am disgusted at the actions of FSG and John Henry. If Jürgen Klopp decides to leave, I support his decision 100%.
This goes against the spirit of the game.

[nai]

Voting with feet won't matter too much, nobody's attended a match for quite some time yet still the cash rolls.  I'd imagine a majority of fans will be against it, we're about to find out if that matters to the owners. Guess it's about rights abroad, mostly in the far east, and creating a new market for starstruck young kids.

[tomtom]

This goes against the spirit of the game.

A big chunk of this went with the formation of the PL - and its slowly been winnowed away since....

Wellsy on message there IMHO.

I wonder if the outpouring of betrayal/anger from fans flagged up by the media (this isnt aimed at you Andy - a general point) is actually more representative of how the game has moved to being a huge cash cow over the last 19-20 years  - and this is more of a tipping point (the straw that may break the camels back) for venting those feelings?

Its quite interesting hearing lots of the arguments against the league - that could equally be made against the EPL, or laLigue, or Serie A etc... Also, clubs being in a league by franchise rather than merit is common place in other sports...

[Andy F]

I wasn't happy at the creation of the Premier League, but it has improved the quality of the game. It is still a proper league, where big teams (Leeds, Aston Villa) can go down and underdogs (Leicester) can upset the odds.
Yes, City have ruined it by having the financial clout of a rich country, but they are not unbeatable.
This new league is a closed shop. It isn't football as it's been played for over 125 years. The meritocracy has been removed.
It's all about increasing the revenue for the already rich owners.

[Falling Down]

TomTom - you’re right about the straw that broke the back of the camel. I think many fans have rather queasily stomached the money pouring into the game (Andy - C’mon it’s not just City FFS.) until now.

[Wellsy]

Every match could be held behind closed doors and the Big Six would still turn a (very large) profit. Ticket sales are not important to them. The brand and the rights are hugely, astonishingly profitable and the ability to make a European super-league which can sell viewing rights overseas (i.e. outside Europe) will be even more so.

And besides... fans will still go and see the matches. A lot might not. But a lot don't now... how much is it for a Man City ticket? And how many can you get after all the businesses have hoovered em up? Ultimately at the end of the day when it comes to making a lot of money a lot of the big clubs honestly see the fans as a bit of a liability... so it's not really a big deal to them.