[richdraws]

A definitive bouldering guide is never going to happen. I don't think there's a need to describe every problem either, is everyone desperate to be spoonfed?

For some of us there's an enjoyment to be had from going to areas and discovering stuff for oursleves. Others don't claim these things so that others can have that too. The more folk claim, name and grade every last gap the harder that is to do.

Elitist nonsense Mr Brown. Go play in Scotland if you want adventure and remember not to claim your ascents or have anyone film you either, just in case. The Peak is back garden territory, and its useful to many people to know whats been done and what's available for a bit of a climb.

[Fiend]

The Peak is exceptionally well covered by multiple guidebooks and vast amounts of internet information. What is wrong with leaving some small areas (dwarfed by the huge areas of documented stuff) for others to re-discover. I think that is preferable to the claim everything mentality, particularly seeing some of what is being claimed.

[richdraws]

What is wrong with leaving some small areas (dwarfed by the huge areas of documented stuff) for others to re-discover.

Because Red Palms Might go and claim the FA's?

[Sloper]

The Peak is exceptionally well covered by multiple guidebooks and vast amounts of internet information. What is wrong with leaving some small areas (dwarfed by the huge areas of documented stuff) for others to re-discover. I think that is preferable to the claim everything mentality, particularly seeing some of what is being claimed.

And how exactly did this repository of information develop?

If good problems aren't written up they can and do return to nature.

I'm not talking about claiming everything, for example on the block that I did three problems you could probably squeeze in a link up here, a new variant there etc I would agree that things like that 3' problem at the plantation should never get written up but new areas and new problems in my opinion should.

[Fiend]

I do concur that The Harris is by far the guiltiest party if only for that toilet pit minus-one-move wonder lump of knee high turd he dared to think of as boulderable 

Anyway, the info has developed from people claiming stuff. Once it gets to a critical stage where is enough is recorded for people to have loads of documented stuff to go at and undocumented stuff is a rare resource (obviously this happened a long time ago in the Peaks), then perhaps that is when a line should be drawn.

[SA Chris]

I think the level of documentation should correlate with demand. As the Peak is probably the most under pressure rock climbing area in the UK, the more that is known about and people are informed about, the more the demand is spread about and the pressure lessened on current honeypot areas.

[Johnny Brown]

I think Fiend is hitting the nail on the head here. In this most developed of areas more is to be gained from leaving some stuff unrecorded than trying to catalogue everything.
I fail to see how that is elitist; quite the opposite, it allows more folk the pleasure of exploration, and the experience of solving a problem of unknown difficulty at modest grades.

Chris, you raise a good point and in the new BMC guides circuits around less well known areas will hopefully spread pressure. There remains a case though for undocumented areas where folk with a mind to can explore.

Apologies if anyone feels targeted by this, my beef isn't with these problems, these climbers or this thread, its general. I will admit though that every time Chris Craggs claims another severe at stanage a little part of me dies.

[Teaboy]

I will admit though that every time Chris Craggs claims another severe at stanage a little part of me dies.

I know what you mean, its my ambition to climb all the three star classics up to VS on Stange as well and its a pain to keep having to go back for one more.   

I don't really understand the argument for not documenting things, any sense of adventure you get from finding these things is at best illusionary because, by your own admission, they have already been climbed they are just unknown to you. If that sort of thing gives you a kick (and you have that much time on your hands) then going anywhere without a guide book on a quuiet day will give you the same result. Would you really feel happier to spend a day hunting around the moors and not finding anything worth while than spending a day being directed to decent problems by a guide book?

[Johnny Brown]

Would you really feel happier to spend a day hunting around the moors and not finding anything worth while than spending a day being directed to decent problems by a guide book?

You've hit the nail on the head there. We can already be directed to plenty of decent problems. Whereas hunting around is producing increasingly slim pickings. Yet folk keep insisting on writing them up.

The sense of adventure doesn't come from kidding yourself a problem hasn't done before. It comes from, as you say, the unknown. Not having a guide isn't the same as leaving stuff undescribed.

[travs]

I take it from that then Adam that you have never written up a new problem or intend writting up any other new probelms?

[Johnny Brown]

Yes I have. But there are many more I haven't...

I would have thought you'd have picked that up from the above, but if it really is that simplistic to you... there are lines to be drawn lest we end up trying to write up every move ever done.
An arete in a pit with rules for feet in the middle of Apparent North strikes me as being firmly one side if that line. Clearly you feel it's on a different side.

[Sloper]

Would you really feel happier to spend a day hunting around the moors and not finding anything worth while than spending a day being directed to decent problems by a guide book?

You've hit the nail on the head there. We can already be directed to plenty of decent problems. Whereas hunting around is producing increasingly slim pickings. Yet folk keep insisting on writing them up.

The sense of adventure doesn't come from kidding yourself a problem hasn't done before. It comes from, as you say, the unknown. Not having a guide isn't the same as leaving stuff undescribed.

And who's to decide what's worth writing up and what's not? I think the only answer can be those who go and repeat it once it's been written up.

[nik at work]

Whilst I can see JB's point about leaving undiscovered problems/areas for adventurous souls I hardly think that starting a thread on a forum about a couple of (potentially) new problems is tantamount to suggesting that the Peak Bouldering guide should immediately be reprinted with these new problems included. In fact threads like this allow a concensus to develop over the "significance" of the problem in question and whether or not it should be a candidate for inclusion in the next edition of a bouldering guide. It can also supply an answer to the age old "has it been done before" question, some of these answers will be definitve and some more speculative but again it adds a weight of opinion(s).

Keep starting threads about potential new problems IMHO (whether they are started in News or Bouldering or wherever is really not significant), after all if you really are after a days exploratory bouldering you're hardly going to prepare for the session by trawling through old forgotten threads about possible new problems in the area you want to have your "adventure" in. However if you are preparing a guidebook you may, and it might even provide reference to some outstanding previously unrecorded gems...

[Jacqusie]

Keep starting threads about potential new problems IMHO (whether they are started in News or Bouldering or wherever is really not significant), after all if you really are after a days exploratory bouldering you're hardly going to prepare for the session by trawling through old forgotten threads about possible new problems in the area you want to have your "adventure" in. However if you are preparing a guidebook you may, and it might even provide reference to some outstanding previously unrecorded gems...

Quite. Carefully documenting problems in each and every area is sometimes not the way as in the Grinah Stones or Barrow Stones on Bleaklow to leave a sense of adventure - just a nod in a guide is good enough.

However in places like RHS, Stanage & Cratcliffe its reached saturation point - I defy many more problems to be squeezed in & those that are should be left for everyone to rediscover IMHO - unless they are monster lines of course!

Si

[Sloper]

There's still plenty of stuff to do at stanage, you're just looking in the wrong places (eg the grouse)

[Fiend]

Or more likely not looking at all.

[Jim]

Shit I think I just figured out what these problems are, are they just below a round butress with lots of easy solos on and there is a gulley down to the left of this butress with some very good problems in?
is there also a good little slap move problem off a shelf just to the right of this pit?
If so (although my memory is hazy), then have done left arete and tried the rib but only had trainers on so never gave it a proper go

can't be arsed reading rest of thread, a photo would be good although it propably needs to stop raining

[travs]

No you're in the wrong area, I'll have to get a photo.

I have to say there a lot of double standards going on here and people potentially self appointing themselves as style police. If we were to ignore problems with specific rules then we would eliminate a large number of quality problems and wouldn't bother writting up such classics as :

Blind Fig
Jerry's Traverse
Work Hard
Everything on limestone

What I can't believe is that there is so much negative criticism and nobody's actually gone out and repeated the problems. If you go and repeat them and you think the problems were shite then fair enough. But at least keep an open mind and don't for one minute think that the edges are worked out.

[Sloper]

Double standards seems to be a mild approach, not having a go at the personalities on this thread but there's a rather different approach http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,11657.0.html

Just as the default position is 'no top, no tick' so should the default be that 'if you don't claim it, you don't retro claim it'.

[Shy Yorkshireman]

In this most developed of areas more is to be gained from leaving some stuff unrecorded than trying to catalogue everything.

Well spoken Mister Brown it would be madness to name and grade a new problem. Where you use your right hand on the holds you used for your left, on the problem to the right. Which kind of share the same line. Then Call it a classic even though it don't go to the top of the crag! Crazy stuff that. Or start half way up the gully to the left and bridge into the proper line, name and grade get your knob out and phone the area rep!!!! This stuff shouldn't happen.


I hear what your saying though but...............

[Sloper]

That's the point isn't it; we're not talking about eliminates but new lines on new blocks....... or have I missed your ironic intent; quite possible as i'm trying to write a magazine article for a construction magazine....

[uptown]

A definitive bouldering guide is never going to happen on my shift.

I, like Travs, invited mockery by claiming an unrecorded problem in News.
I relegated the next new problem I did to a sub-forum, and I'm undecided whether to publicise any future problems on UKB. It's no co-inkydinky that the Dronnie massif avoid here really.

[Jaspersharpe]

Hold on uptown. Having just reskimmed the thread there is only one person arguing the "don't report this stuff" corner (with a bit of half hearted backup from Fiend, but hey  ).

Are people really that afraid of an internet tongue lashing from JB that they avoid reporting on here despite the fact that basically everyone else appears to be supportive of such actions?

[SA Chris]

Are people really that afraid of an internet tongue lashing from JB

with a side order of McTongueLashingLite.

[Percy B]

Oh Brother Cadfael....should we take the in-situ clips out of Mecca?