[Fiend]

I thought it might be useful to start a general reference / brainstorming topic for this. It's not something that is affecting me personally at the moment, but it has done and I know it affects other people, and it's hard to deal with.

I'm sure we're all familiar with it: We like pushing ourselves, we like being challenged, with like progressing, we like working toward progress, we like training and improving ourselves physically. But then we get injured, chronicly or repetitively, or something else gets in the way and we simply can't train nor push our limits in the same way and it's utterly demoralising and frustrating and all we want to do is keep fit and strong until we get back on the rock again but the injuries prevent even that and it fucking sucks.

So.

What are some good tactics to deal with this situation?? What have people found effective??

I know how hard it is and I know when one is feeling so low and pissed off and frustrated that it's hard to implement alternative tactics and hard to take any joy in a situation where one is missing out on the pleasure of challenging climbing, but I also know that....one can have some hope by doing something fun and/or progressive at such times.

Some ideas I would try:

More CV - running, swimming, biking, hillmarching.

More flexibility - yoga or regular stretching.

More focus on technique - improving footwork, technical awareness, balance, etc, on easy terrain.

More focus on flashing and flashing well - working out sequences well, hanging on, speeding up sequence analysis.

More diverse climbing, doing stuff one hasn't done before - be it a different style of bouldering, or highballing or soloing or trad or sport or DWS or multipitch or whatever.

Exploration, new rock types, new areas - all can give climbing pleasure and wider skills without pushing injuries.


Please continue....

[SA Chris]

Less wall, more rock.

[Fiend]

A fair point, although sometimes time / weather / daylight prevents access to rock... Non-rock alternatives to the wall are useful to consider.

[GCW]

Currently climbing is out.  I have hit the booze and the running hard.  Also some pull ups, via wrist loops.

Bored?  Too fuckin' right. 

[robertostallioni]

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SCROLL DOWN, THIS IS VNSFW.

Currently climbing is out.  I have hit the booze and the running hard.  Also some pull ups, via wrist loops.Bored?  Too fuckin' right.  

Bloody weirdo.

<image edited>

Apparently jogging is just as bad on the nips but a more gentle on the undercarriage pummelling front.

[GCW]

http://www.pr0nprosusa.com/store/images/BARSTOCKADE.jpg]Stallioni chills on a Saturday night.


Back on topic, injuries are shit.  However, oddly I feel a bit of a release.  NO need to check teh forecast, worry if it'll rain, get psych for trying such-an-such a problem, worrying about failure etc.
I feel strangely calm.  Pissed off, but calm  


For the link you'll need to copy and paste, then swap the n and o around.  Damned auto scensorship.

[robertostallioni]

For the link you'll need to copy and paste, then swap the n and o around.  Damned auto scensorship.

Its only bluebrad that reads this shit anyway, you'd better off just PM him.

[GCW]

you'd better of just PM him.

Your grammar is terrible, oh equine one.

[robertostallioni]

fuck of

[SA Chris]

I think some exercise regime not based on getting stronger is a good idea - theraband, using weights to sort out muscle imbalances etc.

[Jim]

less crying and more finger tape is my moto now my fingers are slowly buckling one by one.
A nice holiday in the algarve for 10 days swimming, tennis, table tennis (wiff-waff) and sunbathing and only the prospect of climbing on choss ensures a good rest for bearing down

[erm, sam]

I think if you are talking about chronic injuries, that have been with you gradually increasing for the last few weeks, month that just are not getting better the only thing to do is JUST STOP FOR  A WHILE. For me, all those alternative things to do help to feed the desire to push harder than I should in order for the injury to recover. Setting a few weeks or a month officially off and doing something else can be really good. Stops the endless minute examining of the injury and the urge to just test it a little harder. After that the usual gradual back into it build up can happen over another set period.
JohnnyBrown would of course say that you should never rest for that long and should keep climbing at a low level to improve healing. But if you don't have access and time to bumble around in a satisfying way, and are not at the mental level to reign in ones earthly desire to try just a little bit harder then I think JUST STOPPING FOR A WHILE can really help. Can also realign the chakras somewhat so you can help see that a couple of weeks not climbing is not the end of the world....

[slackline]

Can also realign the chakras somewhat so you can help see that a couple of weeks not climbing is not the end of the world....

I find a few tokes on one of these has the same effect...



...and when something stronger is needed some of these...

[GCW]

I can't believe that Filthy Fiend has started a NSFW topic.  Tut tut. 

[andy_e]

I find lots of tokes on a few of these has the same effect...

fixed

[slackline]

I find lots of tokes on a few of these has the same effect...

fixed

You need a new dealer andi_e 

[Johnny Brown]

Before this goes wildly OT, is everyone else really bothered about *progress*?

I'm not. If an injury stops climbing completely, fair enough, thats a pain. But learning to appreciate climbing without needing to push any limits would be a good start.

[slackline]

Before this goes wildly OT, is everyone else really bothered about *progress*?

I'm not. If an injury stops climbing completely, fair enough, thats a pain. But learning to appreciate climbing without needing to push any limits would be a good start.

Nope, mileage is good, but all of these will help you appreciate your climbing even if you're goal isn't to progress...

More CV - running, swimming, biking, hillmarching.

More flexibility - yoga or regular stretching.

More focus on technique - improving footwork, technical awareness, balance, etc, on easy terrain.

More focus on flashing and flashing well - working out sequences well, hanging on, speeding up sequence analysis.

More diverse climbing, doing stuff one hasn't done before - be it a different style of bouldering, or highballing or soloing or trad or sport or DWS or multipitch or whatever.

Exploration, new rock types, new areas - all can give climbing pleasure and wider skills without pushing injuries.

[shark]

Before this goes wildly OT, is everyone else really bothered about *progress*?

I'm not. If an injury stops climbing completely, fair enough, thats a pain. But learning to appreciate climbing without needing to push any limits would be a good start.

I am. Developing, learning, improving, striving and aspiring are positive aspects of *progress*. There can be negative aspects as well. I think if I had injuries that would stop me pushing limits I would still carry on climbing. I had a lovely day bimbling with my son at Baslow on Saturday and another great day pushing the limit at Malham on the Sunday. Made me realise that it can be both, rather than either/or.  

[Johnny Brown]

Quite. I wasn't suggesting progress should be something to avoid, its a wonderful thing and the source of much satisfaction for me as much as anyone. Just avoid it becoming your raison d'etre.

Fiend's idea of looking for other games to play and improve at is a good one. Narrowly focussing on progressing bouldering via strength is not going to be sustainable in the long term.

[north_country_boy]

Before this goes wildly OT, is everyone else really bothered about *progress*?

I'm not. If an injury stops climbing completely, fair enough, thats a pain. But learning to appreciate climbing without needing to push any limits would be a good start.

I am. Developing, learning, improving, striving and aspiring are positive aspects of *progress*. There can be negative aspects as well. I think if I had injuries that would stop me pushing limits I would still carry on climbing. I had a lovely day bimbling with my son at Baslow on Saturday and another great day pushing the limit at Malham on the Sunday. Made me realise that it can be both, rather than either/or.  

I agree with both of these statements, but as Johnny Brown says, there is no need for one to completely replace the other, however if injured and pushing your limit is unachievable because of this then lowering your level and enjoying climbing at a lower/less intense/less stressful level can also bring about great rewards.  From a climbing perspective its often easy to become blinkered down one path/genre of climbing which can also become the reason injury strikes, supplementing climbing with something else, as Fiend mentioned is a great, and can indirectly improve your climbing. However broadening your climbing experience can bring great rewards too....

Onsighting a larger volume of sport routes and trad is a great way of doing this, and as much as people say it has 'no benefit towards improving your maximum level', i beg to differ. Consolidation and volume through the grades is an essential way to improve as a climber. This does take time, but the process is often more enjoyable than always pushing yourself to your physical limit.....plus you increase your time actually climbing on rock and become more proficient at reading/being efficient/executing moves quickly....which can benefit climbing harder projects etc.

It all depends what climbing means to YOU. If climbing hard and always pushing your limit physically is everything to you, then ignore the above, and continue on a life of strength based improvement injury. If you want to continue climbing, and enjoying climbing and expand your experiences then widen your horizons, and try some aternatives you may be surprised to enjoy.

[Kingy]

Yeah in terms of sport routes volume is key, how else are you supposed to gain stamina and fitness other than by doing easier graded routes than your maximum level? Like ARCing, doing a long route 4 grades below your max redpoint level will make you fitter and will massively affect your performance on your ultimate project. Also, with the benefit of getting new ticks which is always good for the psyche.

I do think that onsighting at your limit is equivalent to redpointing at your limit in terms of the massive levels of effort that are put in. The only difference is that you ain't seen the moves before in the former situation. A move that you do for the first time on an onsight could easily require a similar effort to one that you have done 50 times on a project, its just that it is likely that the project move will be considerably harder. Crucially, the fact that you have done the move on the project umpteen times before means that the effort you expend doing that move is relatively much less than the 'onsight' move. Therefore, onsighting at your limit to me is still performing at your maximum level and will have similar benefits training wise. It certainly hasn't done Ondra any harm...

[Paul B]

I'm not. If an injury stops climbing completely, fair enough, thats a pain. But learning to appreciate climbing without needing to push any limits would be a good start.

This is what's bothering me at the minute, I kept getting injured from training so took on board everyones advice and just went out, lo and behold one finger went twang like never before and even jugs p*ss it off.

[T_B]

Trad shufflin is the only answer. If you only sport climb or boulder, you may as well  .

With the Spirit of Trad guiding you, you can discover new areas, seek joy from mileage and generally (re) learn how to move fluidly over rock/shale/sand... rather than focussing on strength/fitness.

[Paul B]

Trad shufflin is the only answer. If you only sport climb or boulder, you may as well  .

but 'shufflin isn't always an option, I mean, if you can't hold onto jugs you're f*cked, no? I've been finding cocktails and beer to be an extremely good way of forgetting about injury, it does however make me think a lot about getting fat.

[T_B]

Trad shufflin is the only answer. If you only sport climb or boulder, you may as well  .

but 'shufflin isn't always an option, I mean, if you can't hold onto jugs you're f*cked, no?

I've never heard of anyone so injured that they can't do mileage outdoors. If you're talking about indoors then that's another story, what with indoor climbing being at the root of all injuries seemingly...

[Jaspersharpe]

I think Paul just needs to rest properly and stop aggravating the injury by attempting to climb (anything!) on it while it's still too bad.

The cocktails/beer approach is the way forward. 

[butters]

...but 'shufflin isn't always an option, I mean, if you can't hold onto jugs you're f*cked, no? I've been finding cocktails and beer to be an extremely good way of forgetting about injury, it does however make me think a lot about getting fat.

If you go a couple of pints\cocktails past the point of where you forget about the injury you will find that the getting fat issue seems to magically disappear as well (well at least till you sober up again). 

bluebrad

[SA Chris]

I've been finding cocktails and beer to be an extremely good way of forgetting about injury, it does however make me think a lot about getting fat.

I really fucked my back good and proper once, and actually enjoyed the chance to slob out, eat shit, drink loads, not worry about wasting a dry day, catch up on DVD watching, and getting fat for a month or so. Soon shifted the lbs with some decent CV exercise - long bike rides, lots of swimming and surfing.

[Johnny Brown]

I mean, if you can't hold onto jugs you're f*cked, no?

No. With even one broken finger I'm sure I could still do a lot of trad up to E3 or so. Go for routes which are predominantly crack or slab, and work around it. When I bust my ring finger A2 in font, the next day I taped it up and did La Mauve circuit at Dame Jouanne - turned out to be perhaps the best day I've had in the forest. The rest of the week I just bouldered, and by keeping completely open handed and choosing problems carefully got up to 7b. You never know, learning to work around it could be good for your technique.

[Paul B]

I get what you're saying but even on some really easy things in Albarracin I had to really check myself to avoid hurting it and quite often i'd just get something wrong and it would hurt a little. A foot slip, not quite going far enough into a hold etc etc. Now its got to the stage where a lot of things hurt it I think these mild aggravations are going to be more of an issue (and maybe have contributed to its current state?). So I guess I could stick to trad where I only palm down with my left hand or do everything one handed but that seems about as much fun as another discussion with you about training.

I think the only way to deal with persistent injury is to just accept that you will climb less or be doing something you enjoy less.

[Johnny Brown]

The injuries I've climbed through got better a lot quicker than the ones I rested. If you really can't enjoy just getting out and working around it then I guess the beer is the only option.

[Ru]

I've never really found an injury I couldn't climb through. I tooled a shoulder at university for a few months and spent the summer ticking the roaches slabs. I would have thought it was possible to climb stuff like San Melas with even a bad finger injury. You can always go and climb slab boulder problems one-handed/no handed. Robin Hood's Stride and Burbage South are great for this.

[Falling Down]

Maybe change your avatar 

[Houdini]

In my experience, taking extended periods off from climbing has had a strongly positive effect on my body and state of mind.  My persistent injuries are nerve damage to both sides of my neck resulting in areas of numbness in fingers, palms and forearms and pins and needles of varying severity simply according to how I hold my head.  Even lying back in a dentists' chair has (non-dental) implications for me.

W/out exception, having months off makes me more positive about climbing in general (a big plus as climbers can be such vain, fragile bores to associate w/ ) I'm much less likely to find myself getting into it, just a little too much (and  associated problems such as taking myself too seriously, SOH failures, and the desire to push biro's into the eyesockets of various jumped up pricks in the N Wales area) as well as more tangible benefits such as increased back flexibility and all-round posture improvement, and the gradual healing of long-term injuries. 

I haven't climbed in 18 months and feel fitter than ever and very strong.  I may even climb this winter.

As for progress...  That's beyond many from day one, and IMO should be shunned in favour of enjoyment, because life's too fucking short.

[SA Chris]

.......or be doing something you enjoy less.

Or do something you used to enjoy less until you are good enough at it to enjoy it more?