[Serpico]

Ah well, you've learnt a bit but still not understood. I don't climb to improve or achieve; I climb to climb. Hence no reason to train.

But those that don't improve will run out of routes to do far quicker than those that do.

[slackline]

Just one thing, for Paul B to clear up, now we're talking about the joy of training.  Is it true that:

"Malcolm went from climbing F7C+ to Hubble in one season due to climbing on boards..."

(I'm running for it now...)

Jasper will tell you 

[Jaspersharpe]

Magnetic March '91, Hubble August '92. You do the math, girlfriend. 

[a dense loner]

i fail to see what this exercise has to do with latch to crimp ability? just jump to a hold open-handed and then crimp it

well, you say that, but it's not that easy, is it? 

If you throw for a tiny hold on a steeply overhanging wall,  latch it in a half-crimp and then your hand peels off before you can get the crimp on and game over, summat's gotta be done in da training room. Either that or patience, which I haven't got, because whatever.

Very interested in da training science, even if I never win even one piece of chicken in a raffle.
(Although I've heard pork scratchings are all the rage at the moment).

are you throwing for the hold because you're weak from the previous moves? the move is too hard in isolation so you're throwing? can you hold the geometries in isolation? it's probably your core as opposed to crimping ability. unfortunately you'll need patience to get good core strength, and any other kind of strength of course. if you don't have the patience just get yourself off to albarracin

[route149]

are you throwing for the hold because... the move is too hard in isolation so you're throwing? can you hold the geometries in isolation?

Yes, good point. I'm throwing for it because the set up is one foot on a poor, low foothold, one foot smearing. The crimps I'm moving off are at first rib level, and the one I'm going for feels distant for me.  There's a lot of body tension in the initial set up and I can only initiate the move by throwing.

...it's probably your core as opposed to crimping ability. ....get yourself off to albarracin

I think you're right about the core.  I am doing front lever progressions (second stage) and am already starting to see the benefits with a lot more control on problems and a feeling that I've really worked the core the following day. 

That shows me that I've started to initiate movement from the pelvis more often. Sometimes I have to do it consciously, but often, it's just happening.  It's amazing how it makes holds that previously used to be moderately strenuous into jugs!  At least I know that as I gradually strengthen the core, I will be able to apply that on routes.

Can't wait to get to Albacarrin!

[philo]

Contact strength...


Earl had an exercise where he'd hang a rung on the campus board open and bump both hands simultaneously to crimp then reverse and repeat. If I was you I'd just get the contact strength open that way things won't go snap crack and pop as often.

yeah but when  earl deploys the crimp, no hold is too small

[route149]

I now realise I'm not worthy of the name boulderer. I kind of knew it anyway, and it's okay.  This realisation comes out of somewhere.   I was at the wall when a French guy came along and without showboating, gently did a boulder pyramid peaking at V10 onsight.  (Actually, tell a lie, that one took him three goes.) I know it was onsight because the routes had only just gone up.

I asked him what grade he bouldered and he said he didn't, 'just' sport-climbed 8b.  He put this down to 'being lucky' to have been born near Volx, although he doesn't climb there. 

Anyway, relevance to my OP is that this guy answered my question.  He demonstrated, by crushing a problem very similar to the one I posted about, that you just need to be three times stronger than I am and move in ways that 8b sport-climbers have discovered the hard way are the efficient way to go.   I'm not bigging up sport climbers per se,  but it's a no-brainer, really, that to operate at this level you need to sus movement very well indeed.

He kept doing that levitation thing - not the one demonstrating poor body tension, but just the opposite, the one that looks like magic.

[abarro81]

If he can do v10 in 3 goes and is a route climber I'm pretty surprised he's not climbing harder than 8b.. Sounds like a boulderer to me 

[route149]

If he can do v10 in 3 goes and is a route climber I'm pretty surprised he's not climbing harder than 8b..

Ahah, so what would be par for an F8b route climber to do a V10? 

[Paul B]

I now realise I'm not worthy of the name boulderer. I kind of knew it anyway, and it's okay.  This realisation comes out of somewhere.   I was at the wall when a French guy came along and without showboating, gently did a boulder pyramid peaking at V10 onsight.  (Actually, tell a lie, that one took him three goes.) I know it was onsight because the routes had only just gone up.

I asked him what grade he bouldered and he said he didn't, 'just' sport-climbed 8b.  He put this down to 'being lucky' to have been born near Volx, although he doesn't climb there. 

Anyway, relevance to my OP is that this guy answered my question.  He demonstrated, by crushing a problem very similar to the one I posted about, that you just need to be three times stronger than I am and move in ways that 8b sport-climbers have discovered the hard way are the efficient way to go.   I'm not bigging up sport climbers per se,  but it's a no-brainer, really, that to operate at this level you need to sus movement very well indeed.

He kept doing that levitation thing - not the one demonstrating poor body tension, but just the opposite, the one that looks like magic.

Just a thought but I think you need to stop basing anything on indoor grades...

[slackline]

Adam Ondra is primarily a route climber, but isn't too bad at bouldering when he turns his hand to it.

I'd suggest (and this is a guess) that this level is attained from lots and lots of climbing (primarily outdoors) as opposed to a dedicated training regime.

[route149]

I'd suggest (and this is a guess) that this level is attained from lots and lots of climbing (primarily outdoors)..

 Good point, slack---line. That's exactly what he said.  He mostly does stacks of routes in Siurana, he was telling me. 

[Houdini]

Spend a portion of your wall sessions climbing one-handed, I used to traverse for so many moves on the right then swap directions and hands w/ occasional forays upwards.

Obviously as you progress you can go from vertical to more overhanging terrain.

[Falling Down]

I now realise I'm not worthy of the name boulderer. <other stuff snipped> you just need to be three times stronger than I am  

I hope you're just being flippant ... did you not read what Paul B in his road to damascus/injury induced insight wrote earlier in this thread? 

[SA Chris]

I though it was the road to domestos?

[route149]

I hope you're just being flippant ...

It's all right.  I don't really believe continual strength-based improvements are the way to go; on the other hand, some incremental gains as the result of a bigger and more interesting programme won't go amiss.  You're preaching to the converted. 

I have only just returned to activity after a ton of injuries (some my fault, some not) and then a long period of illness kept me away for the best part of 8 years.  I'm not about to blow it by being impatient.  It's nice, actually, to be a more 'mindful' climber than before, focussing on movement and geometry, not strength.
Curiously, that's made me as strong as I was before after just 5 months back into it.

[a dense loner]

what a crock of shit pauls road to damascus story is. i'd gladly trade a couple of vs's for the strength to do an 8b

[route149]

i'd gladly trade a couple of vs's for the strength to do an 8b

Extraordinary feeling that would be.  And the bonus is, after the 8b tick, you could climb about 40 vs's as a warm-down afterwards or on a rest day.