Bolt replacement? Arch Enemies. (Read 14612 times)

AndiT · April 20, 2009, 09:14:06 pm

Just a quick question...

Last year I failed to redpoint Arch Enemies in Dove Dale, I've got loads of excuses which I won't bore you with, you an probably guess them anyway

Anyway, the hangers on the route are fab and shiney, the bolts however (as of last year) where minging, brown and flakey. I was wondering if replacing these would be as simple as buying some new bolts, unscrewing the old ones and putting in fresh brand-spankers? Or do you need to redrill and start a fresh in this case? I know little about bolting so some expert advice would be greatfully received.

Cheers

chummer · April 20, 2009, 10:50:11 pm

I presume these bolts are the old petzl type with a nut 'head' that fits a spanner?? If so, unscrew the old ones and as they are only drilled in a couple of inches at most so you can redrill for new ones about 3 inches away if replacing like for like position wise. Or if there are any badly positioned bolts it's a good time to remedy this and drill them where they're more reachable or in better rock for example.

Quote

unscrewing the old ones and putting in fresh brand-spankers

This isn't recommended at all as you don't know how sound they are and you may as well place a good new bolt otherwise it defeats the object.

With regard to replacement I'd use resin 'glue in' bolts as they last forever and are bomb proof if placed well:

the only problem with these is that you can't hang or clip them straight away to help you in the re-bolting process so just use the old ones for this and remove these once you're done.
If not then 10mm or even better 12mm stainless steel expansion bolts 70 or 80mm long. If you want any advice on how to place these well, just post again. Good luck!

shark · April 20, 2009, 11:34:14 pm

I still have a score to settle with Arch Enemies too. The bolts are the Pollitt originals and probably hand placed and you will be doing a great service by replacing them on such a fantastic route. It was conspicuous by its absence in the Northern Limstone Rockfax.

The BMC document is a great guide to all the bolting options and helped me recently with resin bolting as I wasn't used to them.

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/Download.aspx?id=8

I will wad you in advance.

Bonjoy · April 22, 2009, 12:50:11 pm

Have pm'd you Andi

205Chris · July 04, 2009, 04:53:53 pm

Had a wander down to Reynard's cave this morning, the route does indeed look awesome. However I couldn't see any sign of new / replacement bolts.

Does anyone know if there is still a plan to rebolt it?

belperpete · July 04, 2009, 06:40:34 pm

Quote from: 205Chris on July 04, 2009, 04:53:53 pm

Had a wander down to Reynard's cave this morning, the route does indeed look awesome. However I couldn't see any sign of new / replacement bolts.

Does anyone know if there is still a plan to rebolt it?

Yes, it's just about top of JC's list and IS an awesome route.
It's been held up a while by a couple of scores (which Jon's looking to settle soon) on projects at Long Tor.
They should be done soon and BANG, we're in.
Obviously there are other bolters out there who might get it sorted first, but could you post JC, as I think
he had some ideas about it which might be relevant to the rebolting?
Cheers

uptown · July 04, 2009, 06:57:59 pm

This is indeed one of the best routes in the Peak at the grade, and I'd be suprised if it wasn't extremely popular with some new hardware. I remember the spacing of Pollitts original bolts adding to the experience too so don't overdo it, yet expect a wad whoever re-pins this.
I'm really looking forward to this...

205Chris · July 04, 2009, 09:06:36 pm

Nice one pete, thanks for the info.

Looks like there might be queues down Dovedale soon judging by the feedback.

shark · July 09, 2009, 11:16:05 pm

Quote from: uptownguru on July 04, 2009, 06:57:59 pm

This is indeed one of the best routes in the Peak at the grade, and I'd be suprised if it wasn't extremely popular with some new hardware. I remember the spacing of Pollitts original bolts adding to the experience too so don't overdo it, yet expect a wad whoever re-pins this.
I'm really looking forward to this...

I always thought an extra one at the start would be an improvement as the first is quite high and a bit off balance to clip and also a lower bolt would make the rope run better.

uptown · July 10, 2009, 09:24:33 am

Quote from: Simon Lee on July 09, 2009, 11:16:05 pm

I always thought an extra one at the start would be an improvement as the first is quite high and a bit off balance to clip and also a lower bolt would make the rope run better.

Fair point Simon. I probably agree with that. Bolt routes shouldn't be too dangerous but good falls - pastry on the pie!
I was meaning the top bolts really, the fall from the top few moves is great and I'd hate the new school year to be missing out on that experience on their on-sight attempt.
Is it pinned yet?

Bonjoy · July 10, 2009, 05:36:07 pm

Not yet, but I think JC may be doing it next week.

belperpete · July 11, 2009, 07:50:15 pm

Quote from: Bonjoy on July 10, 2009, 05:36:07 pm

Not yet, but I think JC may be doing it next week.

Just seen Jon and 'tis done!! Jon's not averse to a long, safe fall, himself.
He'll be posting info asap, I'm sure.
I think Dovedale has lots to offer, in terms of new development (NO, reactionary traditionalists, who don't climb there anyway - I'm not
talking about retroing or, in any way compromising their 'way of life'), but with Doveholes, The Church etc.,there's a bit of potential development awaiting in the place.

JC · July 11, 2009, 08:22:59 pm

Arch Enemies rebolted today

Bonjoy · July 12, 2009, 11:26:45 am

Nice one Jon, can't wait to get back on it.

uptown · July 12, 2009, 08:54:43 pm

Quote from: belperpete on July 11, 2009, 07:50:15 pm

I'm not talking about retroing or, in any way compromising their 'way of life', but with Doveholes, The Church etc, there's a bit of potential development awaiting in the place.

I enjoyed Restricted practices when I did it, but 15 years on I bet the pegs need replacing with some shine. Some great new lines on there IIRC. Best to equip out of hours though - I think problems have been encountered before.

JC · July 13, 2009, 02:34:22 pm

On a related topic has anyone done To Bolt Or Not To Be (7c) on dovedale church? If so what state are the bolts in? The route sounds worthwhile.

ChrisC · July 13, 2009, 02:51:01 pm

Quote from: JC on July 13, 2009, 02:34:22 pm

On a related topic has anyone done To Bolt Or Not To Be (7c) on dovedale church? If so what state are the bolts in? The route sounds worthwhile.

Not great by the sounds of it:

Quote

"The f7c (Bolt It and Believe It!)is more like E6 6c however (take wires)!"

from: http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=283

AndiT · July 13, 2009, 06:02:32 pm

brilliant stuff, it was in dire need!

andy popp · July 13, 2009, 08:02:20 pm

Quote from: useless punter on July 13, 2009, 02:51:01 pm

Quote from: JC on July 13, 2009, 02:34:22 pm
On a related topic has anyone done To Bolt Or Not To Be (7c) on dovedale church? If so what state are the bolts in? The route sounds worthwhile.
Not great by the sounds of it:
Quote
"The f7c (Bolt It and Believe It!)is more like E6 6c however (take wires)!"
from: http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=283

I've done it and its a good route, nice fingery wall climbing. However this was the late 80s so I can't speak for the state of the gear. The logbook comment might reflect the fact it was never a full-out sport route and always needed a couple of wires. A good candidate for redoing I would have thought. BTW did you ever get back on Boobs Jon and are you the Jon Clark of Forest of Dean fame?

andy popp · July 13, 2009, 09:05:46 pm

Just noticed Jon gives one name and useless punter another. I've done Bolt and Believe It. Are they the same route and isn't To Bolt ot Not to Be at Avon? Confused of Widnes.

JC · July 13, 2009, 09:16:41 pm

Quote from: andy popp on July 13, 2009, 08:02:20 pm

I've done it and its a good route, nice fingery wall climbing. However this was the late 80s so I can't speak for the state of the gear. The logbook comment might reflect the fact it was never a full-out sport route and always needed a couple of wires. A good candidate for redoing I would have thought. BTW did you ever get back on Boobs Jon and are you the Jon Clark of Forest of Dean fame?

Hmm no that's not me ??? My mistake i meant Bolt It and Believe It - thx for the info. Haven't been back on Boobs yet unfortunately, but will do at some point definately.

abarro81 · July 13, 2009, 09:20:53 pm

The Avon one you're thinking of will be 'To be is not to bolt', I think 'To bolt or not to be' is a route in the sates somewhere(?)

Jaspersharpe · July 14, 2009, 08:07:54 am

Yes it's at Smith Rock. One of (if not the) first 8b+s in the USA. Done by Jibe and repeated in usual quick style by Jerry.

Johnny Brown · July 14, 2009, 09:07:04 am

As opposed to the To be is not to bolt at Caley. Sounds like there were strong feelings on this in the past...

Jaspersharpe · July 14, 2009, 09:19:27 am

Smith Rock was at the centre of the "rap bolting" controversy/nonsense in the 80s. IIRC it didn't help matters that a Frenchman was climbing all the hardest routes at the time.

The other names were spin-offs from that famous one.