[MorganW]

Nice vid 

Anyway not sure why anyone is moaning about the cost.  Take three guys who with a bit of time on their hands who have all the gear anyway, and campervan hire is what....like EUR2k for a month, and it doesn't appear like they ate very much on the trip.....seems like a good investment for North Face.

[AdamD]

Ha that was brilliant, not what i was expecting i must say! 

[Johnny Brown]

I get the impression the van was bought and the trip budget was much bigger but I may be wrong. I think it's been a good stunt though and would be interested to know why Andy P thinks its 'bullshit'.

[neil h]

I get the impression the van was bought and the trip budget was much bigger but I may be wrong. I think it's been a good stunt though and would be interested to know why Andy P thinks its 'bullshit'.

the van was rented, the budget was shit, I know for a fact that the guys were living on biscuits and haribo for most of the trip

[Jaspersharpe]

I think it's been a good stunt though and would be interested to know why Andy P thinks its 'bullshit'.

He's been paid by TNF to increase the profile of the trip by stirring up discussion. No such thing as bad publicity.

[andy popp]

I think it's been a good stunt though and would be interested to know why Andy P thinks its 'bullshit'.

He's been paid by TNF to increase the profile of the trip by stirring up discussion. No such thing as bad publicity.

I wish, Jasper, I wish.

Adam, I can't believe you can get exercised by people quietly doing their own thing on the pinches wall but not by this. As you said it was a 'stunt' and one that seemed to me to be crass ('I know, at a time of looming economic and ecological crisis lets get in great big fuck-off van and drive thousands of K round Europe'), inauthentic and showing a poverty of imagination and ambition. A new depth in the commodification of climbing. For what its worth I don't give two hoots how much it cost - nor is this personal against Gaz and James, neither of whom I know. I'm sure I'd have signed up if I'd been offered the chance. Anyway, I totally accept I seem to be way out on a limb in reacting like this.

[Johnny Brown]

Well I guess I got into hard climbing a little too late to subscribe to it as some kind of a rebellious act against society. What I have seen is very talented friends being used as marketing 'faces' for paltry remuneration, whilst others get a golden ticket.

Sponsorship isn't going to go away in climbing so I'm interested to see it at least develop. I think there remains far less commodification than in comparable sports. Whether this is the right direction remains to be seen, but at least there's a straightforward link between doing something for the brand and getting paid.

I do appreciate the emotional knee-jerk against the 'inauthenticity', but I'd like to know what you'd suggest as a direction for sponsorship?

[SA Chris]

Can you imagine if it went the same way as the getting paid for scoring system that some sports stars have in their sponsorship deals?

£500 for an E8, with a £200 bonus if it is a FA?

[andy popp]

You're right Adam, my reaction is an emotional, almost visceral one - and so be it. I too have never subscribed to the climbing as rebellion view but I am perhaps naive enough to still find the most inspiration and meaning in others' climbing when I sense that it is in some way authentic to them in terms of its origins and impulses - Ty would be fantastic example of a sponsored climber who meets this test, as evidenced by his great blogging. Here I felt the balance tipped overwhelmingly in favour of motivations exterior rather than interior to the climbers involved. I don't know in which direction sponsorship should go but I'm pretty sure this shouldn't be it (though it probably will). The comparison to levels of commodification in other sports is irrelevant. Finally I don't come from a context of having friends who have been effectively 'used' by commercial forces, so that might explain some of our differing reactions.

[Johnny Brown]

Chris, that system is already in place. Photo incentive deals pay £200-500 for getting on a cover with gear/logos, okay not quite payment for grade but by far the best way to get on a cover is to do a hard new route.

I am perhaps naive enough to still find the most inspiration and meaning in others' climbing when I sense that it is in some way authentic to them in terms of its origins and impulses

I don't think thats naive at all, I totally agree and think its unlikely to change. This trip I think this trip was suffieciently upfront about its contrived premise to sidestep the issue.

Whether the most 'authentic' climbers, like Ty, get support remains more to do with connections than ability. I think the most ambitious get through but often the most talented get fuck all. Whether Ty supports himself through sponsorship now or is bankrolled by very wealthy parents I don't know, he has both as real options though which isn't the case for others.

I don't come from a context of having friends who have been effectively 'used' by commercial forces

Have you spoken to Johnny about this? I know his feelings are only vaguely related to the reality but nonetheless...

[SA Chris]

Chris, that system is already in place. Photo incentive deals pay £200-500 for getting on a cover with gear/logos, okay not quite payment for grade but by far the best way to get on a cover is to do a hard new route.

I know this, but as you say not exactly payment for grade.

[Houdini]

Essentially, this thread sums up why modern climbing is rubbish.  W/ luck this recession will deepen, belts will tighten, ephemera will be discarded.