[mr__j5]

Being a geek, I'd go for a grading system that uses decimal values, so that every problem can be put into an exact difficulty ordering with a weighting to apply a morpho function to 

Just apply the Yosemite Decimal System prepended with a B then.

In fact YDS is neither decimal nor obvious to the first time glancer, for the same reasons.

If it was decimal then 5.9 would about as hard as it got, since 5.12 < 5.2

[cofe]

What Johnny, pritch and Jim said. Some people need to get a grip.

[slackline]

Being a geek, I'd go for a grading system that uses decimal values, so that every problem can be put into an exact difficulty ordering with a weighting to apply a morpho function to 

Just apply the Yosemite Decimal System prepended with a B then.

In fact YDS is neither decimal nor obvious to the first time glancer, for the same reasons.

If it was decimal then 5.9 would about as hard as it got, since 5.12 < 5.2

I'm guessing you're not aware of its origins then? 

It grew from a grading system of walks, hikes and climbs  with 1 being the easiest and pretty much flat walking, and 5 requiring true climbing (as Tom suggests above might be applied to bouldering grades).  People operating in the 5 bracket wanted finer resolution so they started adding .1, .2 etc. but no one ever bothered to tip things over to 6 as that was used for aid climbs and the .x subdivision was seen as open-ended.

[Johnny Brown]

Grade 6 was intended (and is still used) for big walls rather than aid climbs. The line between a 5.whatever big day route and a true 6 big wall is a bit blurred though, especially when the likes of Honnold and Potter solo them in a few hours.

I think there's even a 7 for extreme big walls (ie massive +  altitude/ latitude), though no one except Jim Beyer gets to claim them.

[account_inactive]

Considering, Font 5+ in Font is anywhere between simple and impossible that doesn't really help me when looking in a Peak bouldering guide.

This is so not true.  I hate hearing the typical statement of "I can climb 8a but there are some 6a's I will never do".  This is bullshit.  There might be some 'trick' problems or things that are harshly graded but are they impossible, no of course not

[Johnny Brown]

I can honestly say the grades in font seem fine to me. Have yet to come across a single one of these mythical desperate 5s and 6s, though I have see over-strong, under-skilled friends struggle on what would equally be easy problems in the Peak. They'd just know not to try them at home.

[Fiend]

I despise Font grades for pretty comparable reasons to Jaspers along with the blindingly obvious confusion issue (I mean if you need to capitalise it to make sense WTF?!?!), the messiness of having numbers and letters and pluses all over the place, and the general pointlessness of having them, oh and of course the fashion thing too not to mention the spurious bollox about font and gritstone what-fucking-ever.

Font grades would be awesome if they were a simple linear scale, were applied properly throughout that scale, and weren't pointlessly similar visually to not one but two established grading scales. In fact they'd be perfect if they were just one letter followed by increasing numbers....a bit like V0-V15 or something like that.

CUNTS.

Where can I pre-order a guide (even though I won't be near the area for years).

[tomtom]

Do you need cheering up today Fiend? I can post something to amuse you if thats the case...
(you're wrong about the V grades though  )

[Paul B]

a) hurt yourself or b) totally waste your time if you aren't given an accurate grade.

yeah'cos nobody ever hurt themselves bouldering 

[Sloper]

I think there's a distinct lack of swearing on the thread so let's just swith to the nonces nob cheese noshing type comments, ok?

[butters]

the messiness of having numbers and letters and pluses all over the place, and the general pointlessness of having them

Are you arguing here that Font grades are crap because the have letters and numbers and pluses all over the place? V1, V2 etc. look like a combination of letters\numbers to me and if you accept its existence you can throw V8+ in there for a full house on your Climbing Grades Bingo card.

In all honesty it really makes both halves of fuck all to me whether it is in V Grades or Font grades - I perform a rough calculation in my head if it is a V grade to come up with a Font grade and then proceed to flail miserably in its general direction.

[Aussiegav]

Should the grading system be the focus?

i look at a problem and want to climb (try to) for any or all of the following reasons;
1. it looks a great problem
2. the moves look good, ie watching some one else on it
3. it has some kind of historical importance
4. my mates are trying it


whether it is a V grade, Font grade, peak grade or even colour, does not make the problem any better or worse.
and as for an indication of how difficult is, my own abilities will give me the answer.

And as for the vagueness in the lower end of either the font system or V system. does it really matter?
if you can't do the problem move on to another, font is blessed with choice as Heuco and most definately England.

i'd love to have the time back that i spent trying problems over and over again. I'd go and do other problems instead, the same applies to routes, probably moreso.

Top effort Grimer, and any others who do the thankless job of putting guides together.

to those 'critics' if you don't like the system in a guide go write your own.

at the end of the day, a few letters on paper will not determine whether you will get up a problem / route.

[clm]

Arbitrary argument really. People quickly learn grading systems.
Thing that has really bugged me in the thread is the suggestion that different grading systems suit different kinds of rock! That really does deserve a 

[i.munro]

I can give you one example of why it  really does matter.
The London walls have (for some reason known only to them) settled on V-grades.
Now (a real) 6A feels to me roughly equivalent to around V5 on their scale.
Unfortunately the net is full of tables saying 6A is roughly equivalent to V3.
The best of the local bouldering areas is extremely fragile (both the rock & access) & has nothing really below 6A.
The result of this f%%^ed up multiple grading system is a constant stream of people with no idea of caring for the rock & with inadequate equipment at an area where there's really nothing for them to do.

[SA Chris]

Thing that has really bugged me in the thread is the suggestion that different grading systems suit different kinds of rock! That really does deserve a 

Strangely enough i found that pretty irksome too.

[fatdoc]

Right..

I feel somewhat embarrassed about all this as I have

- come over wring

started  a pefect example of *why forums are not as good as having an approriate converstion over  a beer / /mug of tea.*

This will be my last post on this thread.. to save angst.

To explain - come over wrong.. the use of the  has in my reading on here always not been one of direct reference to the poster / writer of guide / owner of climbing wall etc.. etc.. .. Indeed one of the only rules of this habitat on the www. is no direct personal insult. None was ever intended. This has (obviously) not been made clear by myself. As can be seen I regard the use of V grades on sedimentary rock.. a bit wank.. it's no stronger an opinion on here as the price of pain au chocolate.. and  a daily type of comment on here. This comment by me was felt by the majority to be directed at one person.. my fault.

I do think the grade scale matters... I will endevour to be clearer in my use of      etc.. in the future.

[Sloper]

Is the sequence  a catholic thing?  I think we should be told?  Only the goyum would get the  in the wrong order.

Now is it really your last post?

[Idol eyes]

Woefull!

[Jim]

This comment by me was felt by the majority to be directed at one person.. my fault.

and...?

[slackline]

I can give you one example of why it  really does matter.
The London walls have (for some reason known only to them) settled on V-grades.
Now (a real) 6A feels to me roughly equivalent to around V5 on their scale.
Unfortunately the net is full of tables saying 6A is roughly equivalent to V3.
The best of the local bouldering areas is extremely fragile (both the rock & access) & has nothing really below 6A.
The result of this f%%^ed up multiple grading system is a constant stream of people with no idea of caring for the rock & with inadequate equipment at an area where there's really nothing for them to do.

Educating people to respect rock has nothing whatsoever to do with the grades that are used for boulder problems.

[Bonjoy]

As others have pointed out the V decision was made ages ago and significantly, before the VG bouldering guide came out, which used font grades and IMO tipped the balance in people's preference between system. Prior to this all previous written material on bouldering in the peak was in V or B (proxy V grades). The same was true also for most bouldering literature for further afield in the UK. You may not agree with the decision but it was made on a justifiable basis and once made was logically stuck to for the whole series.
Ultimately it doesn't matter very much because most people have intelligence enough to convert between one set of numbers and another.
If the choice of grade system is sufficient reason for you not to purchase a brilliant guide which you would otherwise enjoy, then you are a prize fuckwit and no amount of forum to-ing and fro-ing is ever likely to change the fact.

[Dolly]

Anyway....

when's the guide out again ?

[Houdini]

 

[bigphil]

Arbitrary argument really. People quickly learn grading systems.
Thing that has really bugged me in the thread is the suggestion that different grading systems suit different kinds of rock! That really does deserve a 

What he said

[i.munro]

Educating people to respect rock has nothing whatsoever to do with the grades that are used for boulder problems.

True but it has a lot to do with where the uneducated end up going.