[Sloper]

How much would you pay for someone to provide you with a, ahemmm, 'model answer' to 'guide' you in your studies?

The reason for asking is that I'm currently engaged in a rewrite of a previous piece of bespoke plagarism research and I've just realised that the punter is paying £750 for 5000 words!

[slackline]

Nothing, its cheaper for me to do it myself, and I might actually learn something about the topic and develop some useful skills along the way.

Anyway, why not just find out what his upper limit will be by revising the quote to £1 per-word and working down from there.  It will no doubt be a function along the lines of....


Money (M)
Laziness (L) range - to
Urgency (U) range > 0
Financial Resources (F) > 0


 M = F * L * U²

[nik at work]

Surely money can't exceed financial resources.
I'd suggest that laziness and urgency should tend towards 1 as they increase thus using your equation money will never exceed financial resouces and we can prevent a collapse of the banking system...



..oh wait a minute.

[slackline]

  I didn't have a napkin to doodle on and randomly wrote whatever first came into my head, very good though.

[tomtom]

Sloper, are you in the process of writing someones work for them (and wondering how much you could get away with charging) or thinking of comissioning someone to do the work for yourself...? 

[Sloper]

I'm the giver not the taker.

As I said I get paid by the agent after they take their slice.  It's a big slice but they have to deal with the morons, so that's easy enough.

Today I have earned about £300 for about half a days writing, not too bad all things considered.

[Sloper]

http://www.customessays.co.uk/law.php

Not the folk I write for but you get the idea.

[slackline]

I'm sure you realise that in willingly participating in such practice you are contributing to the erosion of (higher?) educational standards and belittling the efforts of those who do the hard work themselves. 

[tomtom]

Thanks Sloper,
I was asking as I mark undergrad student work... its surprisingly obvious when someone else has written the work - theres no references to the detail they have been taught in the lectures... often citing/using a whole different batch of info... Some people are plain stupid when they copy work... but thats another thread,.

So, if you were getting someone else to write your own work (which you are not), I would say dont.. Its not worth the bother.

However, if you're making money from writing for some rich twat who should know/be capable of better then thats a different kettle of fish.... Like Slackers says it does diminish the standards etc.... and I would personally not feel comfortable doing it for any sustained period..  but if I was strapped for cash-  in need of a quick buck etc.. I probably wouldnt loose any sleep about doing it...

Mind you, if the essays are any good you could be raising academic standards!! 

[andy popp]

not too bad all things considered.

Except all the ethical considerations.

Its bad enough you're prepared to do this, but please spare us the gloating.

[grimer]

Its bad enough you're prepared to do this, but please spare us the gloating.

well put, and totally agree

[grimer]

Ironically, just after I posted that, the banner ad came up at the bottom saying "I'm rich, you're not", with a smug-looking twit.

Says it all?

[Sloper]

There are many things that have devalued education the first and foremost was this governments approach to turning education into a commodity and then creating a market with fees, leauge tables etc.  There has always been cheats and people like me who will take their money and that tutors.

What I find worrying is that apparently tutors no longer have the ability to see which student has submitted which essay and thereby spot the muppet who has paid for their essay.

Anyway in today's economic climate I'll make a living any way that I can.

[andy popp]

There has always been cheats and people like me who will take their money and that tutors.

I'm glad I'm not paying good money for this rubbish.

[Sloper]

number, gender, case etc now write it out a thousand times

In my defence I was distracted by my son and thought I'd edited the first part of the post from the second part which was typed about 40 mins later.

Anyway it's not just law they have requests for essays on nursing and all sorts, you're a historian if memory serves, if you want to nail the cheats pm me an I'll explain how.

[nodder]

How much would you charge for the info on how to catch them?

[BenF]

I'm sorry but I'm not impressed by this.  Maybe it's fine to take the money, devalue the educational achievements of non-cheats and sneer at the rich twats who'll pay to pass, but it feels very wrong to me.  Cheating is fairly rife (half a dozen cases being unearthed and disciplined each year on one course) according to friends who lecture at a local university and I don't see any morally defensible way of being party to cheating of any kind. 

Well done for earning £300 after half a day's effort, I only hope you pay tax on that.    Then at least some of that can go towards educating the students in the first place (apologies for the condescending air, but this kind of stuff pisses me off).

[SA Chris]

Anyway in today's economic climate I'll make a living any way that I can.

Rent Boy? Selling bags of weed to small children? As a lawyer, you clearly have no morals, so why stop at helping helping cheats to earn your buck?

[Sloper]

Ethically its not the best but the distinction is I'm not cheating anyone.  Law has nothing to do with justice and is often a case of who is better at playing the system, as some regular posters on here will know.

[slackline]

Ethically its not the best but the distinction is I'm not cheating anyone.  Law has nothing to do with justice and is often a case of who is better at playing the system, as some regular posters on here will know.

I disagree, you're cheating those who do the work themselves by (presumably) artificially inflating the standards.  They then have a tougher field to compete against in that academic year.

[SA Chris]

Quite. And this is not a case of playing the system, it's cheating pure and simple.

[vivahate]

It's a shame that stuff like this goes on, and I see this kind of attitude in my students (1st and 2nd year UGs) all the time. Some were discussing 'foolproof' plagiarism techniques the other day. It's not true for all, but the majority of students now just seem to be hussling for the best grade they can get with the minimum of effort, someone began to complain the other day that she couldn't answer all the questions on her tutorial from lecture notes alone. Another came to complain, stating that whilst her and her friends had worked together she hadn't done as well as they had?! 

I think being part of a system that works to help such people to apparent success by writing essays for them is completely immoral.

[Jaspersharpe]

I've never really studied hard for anything but I'd be fucking pissed off if I had and some cunt got the same or better grades than me by getting some other cunt to cheat for them. £300 is a pretty paltry sum to sell out in such shocking fashion for Slopes.

[tomtom]

OK,
I've been lecturing and marking Ugrad's for over ten years now (internal  )

Theres a few points here I'd like to make.
First, Vivahate made some very valid points about students hustling for the right grade. This IMHO is because at school they are now largely taught how to pass exams - not to think about the subject. I'm not blaming teachers, its the constant rankings, targets and inflexibilities of the national curriculum that from our end give the impression students have been fed exactly what they need to know in order to pass their exams. This presents students - and us (lecturers) with difficulties as we have to try and change how they look at things - to thinking about WHY something happens and WHAT it means (- analysis!)  rather than just spouting off some case studies and facts.

Second, this probably does not lead to grades slipping. We do not mark to a distribution - e.g. give 5% 1sts, 20% 2i's, 40% 2ii's etc... we mark to strict criteria concerning the academic quality of the work. THerefore if you do not cheat and someone else does you will not be disadvantaged.

Third, whilst such cheating is widespread (e.g. it happens in many places and institutions) it is not commonplace and I do not think will become so. This is because it costs money - and only a few students will be able to afford this. For a 3rd year Ugrad here, they have to submit c. 36 000 words (or word equivalanets) for their 120 credits. Lets say there are some exams, and overall about 10-12 essays in that lot. At say £100-300 per essay (depending on type etc..) then thats quite alot of beer tokens for your average student to want to waste. So a few students may use it a few times - I dont think buying peoples essays will become a huge issue but remain a minor one.

Fourthly - its really easy to bust people for plagiurism - there is bespoke software (turnitin) and much of our coursework can now be submitted electronically - so its just a matter of plug a few in. The deterrent value of catching someone is huge. A few years ago I busted 5 people all copying the work of one unsuspecting lad (they fished his work out of a handing in letterbox and copied it)... there were no problems for the next couple of years.. word gets around.

Finally - personally I dont agree with what Sloper is doing - and would not condone or reccomend anyone do the same.. It is cheating.

But the real looser out of all this is the idiot who is paying for the service - because they'll end up loosing out in the long run. THey may do well in this essay, but I bet they'll bomb out in others - and if/when they get a job based on their fake grade after a few weeks people there will soon suss they have only half a brain and they will not prosper.

Mind you, they'll probably make a good politician! 

T

[Jaspersharpe]

Loose

LOSE!

  

[tomtom]

Loose

LOSE!

  

Busted. 

[slackline]

plagiurism

plagiarism  

  but get this bullshit.

My wife teaches and assess hair-dressing at Sheffield College, not the most academically bright bunch of students, but they do have to sit and pass exams.  Many often fail, repeatedly, and the head of the department has suggested that the correct answers from repeated papers are taken to give an overall pass grade!!!  I was appalled at this when my wife told me about it (she has refused to do this underhand marking) and I suggested that she take it up with the NVQ examiners, but it turns out that it was they who advocated doing this in the first place!!!

Absolute nonce-sense, and the supposed justification for it is that they have to reach their "targets".  As tomtom says too much focus on passing exams and reaching targets.

[tomtom]

plagiurism

plagiarism 

Arse..  should have paid someone to type it in for me! 

[a dense loner]

i know a lawyer...

[Sloper]

It is Jasper, a paltry sum. Part of me doesn't like doing it and the defences to the action are not the most robust but I've lost too much money and too many clients have gone into administration for me to turn down the dosh.

For all the, quite proper, distaste about students cheating, I'm amazed that the university authorities aren't taking this bespoke 'model answer' plagarism more seriously.  All they would have to do is have PhD students sign up to be 'researchers' and then they'd see which subjects were being touted and then they'd be able to justify a viva for all those students.  My guess is that the cheats won't read the essay or be able to explain their thinking, research etc...

Anyway off out for a play

[Jaspersharpe]

It is Jasper, a paltry sum. Part of me doesn't like doing it and the defences to the action are not the most robust but I've lost too much money and too many clients have gone into administration for me to turn down the dosh.

I can appreciate that. The best course of action may have been to take the money and not advertise the fact on here in what appeared (to some people) to be a boastful manner.

Anyway off out for a play

You cunt. 

[slackline]

...and not advertise the fact on here in what appeared (to some people) to be a boastful manner.

I have a dim and distant recollection that this is not the first time this topic has cropped up on the forums, but can't find the thread and have work to get on with.

[Falling Down]

yep we've definitely had this one before... the last time Sloper was seeking to salve his conscience by starting a thread on cheating students that he was writing essays for. 

[Falling Down]

How much would you pay for someone to provide you with a, ahemmm, 'model answer' to 'guide' you in your studies?

Nothing... nada.... nil points.  You ought to know better Slopes and you're only posting the topic 'cos you feel as guilty as a hen killing dog.   

[andy_e]

I can understand why some people pay money, but I really don't agree with it. I'm the laziest person on my course and I'm still averaging a 2.1, and I'm doing all the work myself. I wouldn't pay a thing because a) I'm paying enough as it is to be taught the stuff, so might as well do it all myself b) I'd be tipping the playing field in my direction by paying for someone, and detracting from people who genuinely work hard, c) I'll probably need what I'm writing about in the future at some point, and d) it's satisfying to have done hard work for something and earnt a good grade (like bouldering really).

[Paul B]

This year my supervisor was busy writing a very in depth set of questions for one particular student after she recognized a peice of work from a year or two ago. He came in, sat down and the first thing he said was "so. you know I copied it then..." she was slightly taken aback. A quick chat with the bloke and he basically said that he just didn't know how the f*ck to do the piece of work or where to start. The sad part was if he'd gone to her office and said that, she'd have spent every available hour helping him out and he'd have got a decent mark instead of being kicked off the course. I think she was saddened by what happened and TBH I was quite relieved as the year before I had taught a 1/3 of the course and would have felt like I'd failed a bit if this had happened on my watch!

Sloper - I don't agree with what your doing. Feel free to justify it by saying things are tight etc. but its obvious you're not comfortable with it and rightly so. There are a whole lot of employment opportunities that are completely legal but have zero morals. Personally no matter how tight things were I wouldn't every get involved. Moral compasses are extremely interesting, no doubt if you hit the jug on the joker and it was covered in ice you'd claim the tick  non?

[Will Hunt]

There's a guy on my course who I have seen copy and paste the output of a GIS practical from somebody else (with her permission), change the colors and the name and hand it in on his own. This was work that had taken HOURS to do and is very copiable as everybody essentially uses very similar techniques and the same data set. I constantly see him cheating his way through the degree by copying from other people who seem to have no problem in him leeching from their hard graft. He boasts that he steals his lunch from the union every day. He's been done for plagiarism before.

It's shit but I am filled with a deep and unswervable instinct not to grass. Don't have any proof anyway.

[lagerstarfish]

It's shit but I am filled with a deep and unswervable instinct not to grass. Don't have any proof anyway.

Don't be soft, Will. Challange him about his behaviour. If he acts like a twat on being challanged then you will have no problem grassing him up.

Overall you will be doing him a favour by setting him up to cope better.

I'm sure this sort of thing was less of a problem when the government paid for higher education 

[Falling Down]

I'm sure this sort of thing was less of a problem when the government taxpayer paid for higher education 

[grumpycrumpy]

£300 is a paltry sum   .... Did I blink and miss inflation go through the fucking roof  .... Maybe I should stop using the wheelbarrow in my allotment for ferrying compost and polish it up for when I want to take my cash to the supermarket ....  

[Falling Down]

Lagers - I think in the olden days it was less of a problem because very few people had computers and there was no internet.  It was much more of an effort to plagarise anothers essay when (a) you had to have a physical copy and (b) write it out word for word rather than cut 'n paste.

[Jaspersharpe]

That's precisely what I was going to say FD.

grumpy - £300 may not be a paltry sum but it is a paltry sum for which to sell out. Which was my point.

[grumpycrumpy]

Sorry Jasper , edited my post rather heavyhandedly .... My response was to  Sloper's agreeing with you .....