What? The line is painfully clear with Desparete - its the top of the crag.
Come on Ted, you don't need the opinions of what the forum users as to whether or not you feel like you've ticked the problem.To be honest it sounds like you feel you haven't done it, where as people like dense have no quarms with ticking what they see to be the hard climbing.Personally I always like to top out or do all the obvious moves etc.. before I know I've done the problem (or tick it if you will)each to their ownyes its high, scrittly and dangerous, but thats half the fun sometimes
Didn't this happen to a certain regular poster on here, on Chimes at the Tor???!! If the rumour is true, I heard the caller of the Lime said he could have it?..........
The original COF had a particularly nasty finishing move leftwards which lots of people didnt like and somebody rebolted an alternative finish with easier moves but slightly longer.
I suppose the bigger issue with it is people not clipping the third bolt en-route...
the "rule", if you can call it that, which i always understood on peak limestone is that generally having the first 2 bolts clipped on a redpoint was fair game, unless there were no other bolts to clip afterwards (i.e. you wouldn't no salar or TOTBB with both bolts clipped).
There's also the issue of some bolts not being meant for the lead, working bolts etc. and also routes like caviar where as far as I understand the position of the original 1st bolt is roughly where the second bolt is now, and the current first bolt is for working (pre-mat days?), hence most people have the first 2 (or just the second) bolt clipped on caviar.
I agree with what you say Dave apart from:Quote from: dave on February 26, 2009, 11:02:38 pmthe "rule", if you can call it that, which i always understood on peak limestone is that generally having the first 2 bolts clipped on a redpoint was fair game, unless there were no other bolts to clip afterwards (i.e. you wouldn't no salar or TOTBB with both bolts clipped). I don't think there is any special 'rule' for peak limestone. Anywhere in the world, if you pre-clip a bolt that you would not be capable of downclimbing from then you are not doing a valid ascent, whether its the 2nd or 5th. I don't see the logic in not permitting the 2nd to be clipped if there are only 2 bolts on the route. Why is this not allowed? The fact that you only have the belay to clip is surely a non-issue, who cares if you didn't actually clip any bolts on lead as long as you are capable of downclimbing from the highest one? Quote from: dave on February 26, 2009, 11:02:38 pmThere's also the issue of some bolts not being meant for the lead, working bolts etc. and also routes like caviar where as far as I understand the position of the original 1st bolt is roughly where the second bolt is now, and the current first bolt is for working (pre-mat days?), hence most people have the first 2 (or just the second) bolt clipped on caviar.If a bolt is a working bolt/ not meant for lead, there is no special rule I don't think. If you can't downclimb from it, don't have it pre-clipped, its as simple as that. With Caviar, having the 2nd pre-clipped is allowed as if you are capable of getting up there, then surely you can reverse a couple of moves and jump off.