[duncan]

That's a shame but a good job it was recognised. As I said before, I had an avulsion fracture spotted at second X-Ray. Mine resolved about as fast as a significant sprain - ie in about 6 weeks - I did not require surgery and I've had no long term problems. Hope yours is no worse. 

[M1V0]

Trapezius? Blimey, good effort chipping your back! But seriously, sorry to hear about the trapezoid fracture, same one I fractured. No surgery, but healed well and I've never had any issues with it since.

[moose]

Trapezius? Blimey, good effort chipping your back! But seriously, sorry to hear about the trapezoid fracture, same one I fractured. No surgery, but healed well and I've never had any issues with it since.

my mistake - trapezium (rather than trapezoid or trapezius!).  The full gory details are:

Suspicion of acute bony avulsion of the trapezial attachment of the thumb beak ligament. Marked reactive bone marrow oedema involving the trapezium bone. High-grade partial thickness beak ligament tear with ligament redundancy, allowing radial subluxation of the thumb metacarpal in relation to the trapezium.

[cheque]

Good job you got that MRI Moose!

As I said in the YYFY thread I had a kind of burst fracture of the trapezium in my left hand that the consultant was not optimistic about but my hand adapted to it without medical intervention. The enforced rest sorted out a finger problem that I thought I was stuck with too.

[M1V0]

trapezium (rather than trapezoid or trapezius!).

These medical types are pretty uninventive when it comes to naming bones.

[moose]

Good job you got that MRI Moose!

As I said in the YYFY thread I had a kind of burst fracture of the trapezium in my left hand that the consultant was not optimistic about but my hand adapted to it without medical intervention. The enforced rest sorted out a finger problem that I thought I was stuck with too.

IIRC your trapezium was completely mashed wasn't it?  The description of my injury reads unpleasantly but it was invisible to both X-rays and there seems to be little loss of strength in my thumb - it's more of a painful tweakiness with certain grips.  I'm not sure if that means the prognosis is better or worse  - sometimes these more "subtle" issues can have treatment problems out of proportion to their seeming severity!

My fear is that consultant will advise surgery that isn't necessary (or vice versa for that matter).  Is it presumptious to assume that orthopaedic surgeons always think orthopaedic surgery is the best option!?

[nik at work]

No it isn’t, I was going to post a similar sentiment. I’m not suggesting that a surgeon would suggest unwarranted surgery. But rather their surgical line in the sand is (in my experience) usually crossed a fair bit sooner than a medic…

[cheque]

IIRC your trapezium was completely mashed wasn't it?

 

Yeah, it was crushed and a section came out of the middle of it.  Not having it looked at, being on painkillers that meant I couldn’t feel it much and then getting around in crutches by taping it up meant it all moved into a weird position as well I believe. I had a CAT scan but not an MRI so don’t really know more than that.

I'm not sure if that means the prognosis is better or worse  - sometimes these more "subtle" issues can have treatment problems out of proportion to their seeming severity!

Me neither. just trying to share my positive experience as I know how scary it is. I presume there was some kind of soft tissue damage involved in mine too given how bad it was (my hand was black at first and it was a long time before I could use it at all) and how the consultant reacted. I was warned that all bets were essentially off. 

My fear is that consultant will advise surgery if it isn't necessary (or vice versa for that matter).  Is it presumptious to assume that orthopaedic surgeons always think orthopaedic surgery is the best option!?

Mine was happy to leave it be even though he told me that he completely removed people’s trapeziums on a weekly basis as that’s how they treat osteoarthritis of the thumb and he’d had a gleam to n his eye when he described how one of the surgery options (removing part of the bone as sculpting the remains into a working substitute) would be previously unprecedented. He was as happy as I was when I showed up again with a hand that worked.

[sheavi]

Ah well... at least I now feel better informed about my situation... and the weather is too hot for climbing anyway (mind you, it's too hot for walking too really!).
[/quote]

When you originally posted myself and others said don't climb until further investigation. This isn't meant to be a personal dig but I often wonder why we ask about injuries on here then ignore the advice. 

[cheque]

I often wonder why we ask about injuries on here then ignore the advice.

Have you seen the car thread? Rarely does anyone get any of the cars people recommend- they usually get the one they said they were thinking about in their first post. 

[moose]

Ah well... at least I now feel better informed about my situation... and the w eather is too hot for climbing anyway (mind you, it's too hot for walking too really!).

When you originally posted myself and others said don't climb until further investigation. This isn't meant to be a personal dig but I often wonder why we ask about injuries on here then ignore the advice.

I was expressing a slightly self- delusional view that I don't miss climbing - a bit of "whistling in the dark".  I've been pretty careful with my injury (especially when you consider my NHS GP made no mention of any possible problems after the 'all clear' from the 2nd X-ray).  Where have I said that I've been ignoring advice?

[sheavi]

Ah well... at least I now feel better informed about my situation... and the w eather is too hot for climbing anyway (mind you, it's too hot for walking too really!).

When you originally posted myself and others said don't climb until further investigation. This isn't meant to be a personal dig but I often wonder why we ask about injuries on here then ignore the advice.

I was expressing a slightly self- delusional view that I don't miss climbing - a bit of "whistling in the dark".  I've been pretty careful with my injury (especially when you consider my NHS GP made no mention of any possible problems after the 'all clear' from the 2nd X-ray).  Where have I said that I've been ignoring advice?

On the YYFY thread I mentioned, as did some others, that it could be a Trapezium injury and recommended not to to climb until further investigation.  You then did a Depot session .  Anyway not really any of my business I suppose and I was in a grumpy mood when I posted yesterday.  Good luck with the recovery.

[mr chaz]

I often wonder why we ask about injuries on here then ignore the advice.

Have you seen the car thread? Rarely does anyone get any of the cars people recommend- they usually get the one they said they were thinking about in their first post. 

This is certainly how I operate. I already know what I want or what I'm going to do, just need a snippet of support from a minimum of 1 anonymous online poster before pushing the button

[mr chaz]

Tendons - anyone have any useful advice in terms of recovering from partial thickness tears (distal biceps tendon)?

Its been about 3 weeks since the event and have been in complete rest since, aside from some normal everyday tasks such as driving. Ultrasound showed the tendon is still partially attached and I have decent strength in supination, hence I have been ushered down the route of conservative management rather than an operation to put it right. I have another appointment tomorrow which I believe is to look at my scan with a different doctor, so perhaps operating may still be on the cards.

That aside, if conservative management is the way forward, is there much I can be doing at this stage to help recovery?

[moose]

Ah well... at least I now feel better informed about my situation... and the w eather is too hot for climbing anyway (mind you, it's too hot for walking too really!).

When you originally posted myself and others said don't climb until further investigation. This isn't meant to be a personal dig but I often wonder why we ask about injuries on here then ignore the advice.

I was expressing a slightly self- delusional view that I don't miss climbing - a bit of "whistling in the dark".  I've been pretty careful with my injury (especially when you consider my NHS GP made no mention of any possible problems after the 'all clear' from the 2nd X-ray).  Where have I said that I've been ignoring advice?

On the YYFY thread I mentioned, as did some others, that it could be a Trapezium injury and recommended not to to climb until further investigation.  You then did a Depot session .  Anyway not really any of my business I suppose and I was in a grumpy mood when I posted yesterday.  Good luck with the recovery.

True - that Depot session was in the after glow of the "all clear" from the second X-ray, when I was trying to convince myself that my wrist felt fine and any problems would have been spotted (or at least the NHS would have warned me of any potential complications).  The weird tweakiness that became evident during that aborted session was, with your advice, what pursuaded me to push for an MRI.   

Live and learn - the UKB concensus was right!   [I wrongly thought people were just being a bit too eager to share horror stories - like the medical version of rogue 1* reviews on Amazon!]. 

Thank you all for your advice, it really has been very valuable - I just should have taken more and earlier notice (though, aside from that one Depot session, I have been pretty careful... as much I can be, given that I keep instinctively picking up things with my right hand).

[mrjonathanr]

Tendons - anyone have any useful advice in terms of recovering from partial thickness tears (distal biceps tendon)?

No, I’m not qualified, but you really need expert physio advice on that I should think. However, I have hurt similar (maybe brachialis). Heavy Slow Resistance was the remedy of choice. It takes a fair time for things to heal. Search Jill Cook podcasts if you want to learn more about fixing tendons, she’s a goldmine of info. A lot of her research is into patellar tendons but general themes still apply to the upper body.

[duncan]

Tendons - anyone have any useful advice in terms of recovering from partial thickness tears (distal biceps tendon)?

That aside, if conservative management is the way forward, is there much I can be doing at this stage to help recovery?

Tendons need loading to heal. Everything else is - at best - a minor adjunct to this.

Broadly speaking, loads need to be quite high. Exercises should be a bit painful at the time but not result in persistent pain. Initially, loads should be for short duration and low reps but you can do this several times a day. The type of load - static, eccentric, concentric - is the subject of some debate. If you've not done this kind of thing before a consultation with a physio. is pretty useful. biscuit, formerly here, knows his stuff; I'm sure there are plenty of others.

[mr chaz]

Thanks for the replies, both. I’ve been back to see the Doc today, he’s happy with my progress and strength, still have a little pain around the rupture zone when twisting. Been told another 4 weeks of total rest and then I can start building up the strength, for which he’s referred me to a physio.

[moose]

Good job you got that MRI Moose!

As I said in the YYFY thread I had a kind of burst fracture of the trapezium in my left hand that the consultant was not optimistic about but my hand adapted to it without medical intervention. The enforced rest sorted out a finger problem that I thought I was stuck with too.

IIRC your trapezium was completely mashed wasn't it?  The description of my injury reads unpleasantly but it was invisible to both X-rays and there seems to be little loss of strength in my thumb - it's more of a painful tweakiness with certain grips.  I'm not sure if that means the prognosis is better or worse  - sometimes these more "subtle" issues can have treatment problems out of proportion to their seeming severity!

My fear is that consultant will advise surgery that isn't necessary (or vice versa for that matter).  Is it presumptious to assume that orthopaedic surgeons always think orthopaedic surgery is the best option!?

An update (that if believed, is probably more suited to YYFY!), I visited the orthopaedic hand surgeon today.  After prodding my hand and getting me to do various exercises (resisting his manipulations etc.), he said my fracture is pretty benign as they go and complications that require surgery are rare.  A lucky escape possibly - he said if it had been the metacarpel I'd fractured, the prognosis would be less optimistic (as I understand it, when my hand slammed into the rock, my metacarpel was pushed into the concave face of the trapezium and knocked a bit off, which is thankfully clear of the joint).

The outlook now is that I should ditch the splint and start using my hand as much as I can without undue pain to rehab the ligament (including going climbing). He thinks because of the mobility of the joint and the nature of the damage, I'm unlikely to cause any further damage (unless a twinge causes me to fall unexpecedly and have another accident!).

The only annoyance is that he hadn't seen the MRI results when I visited him (due to an admin error, I had to pass them to him) but he had already seen the signs of a the trapezium problem in the post-2-week X-ray (a tell-tale "fluid line" and my trapezium being the wrong shape).  That's the same X-ray that the radiologist at Airedale said showed I was absolutely fine....

[mrjonathanr]

Nice one Moose, you must feel mightily relieved by that.

[moose]

Aye, although a bit miffed that I have missed out on a few weeks rehab and my recovery has been delayed, as the NHS radiologist who did the 2nd X-ray didn't see apparent evidence of a fracture (or at least cause for concern that should have led her to recommend further investigation).  Hey ho... truth be told, I've rather enjoyed my enforced walking holiday.... (although I am tempted to symbolically set fire to my OS maps and waterproof trousers!).

[205Chris]

Rare post from me in NNFN but this morning someone drove into our van that was parked on the street. Stopped for a look and then drove off again leaving no details.

We've got a description of the car and driver, but no reg plate. I presume this is where the police just give you a crime number and expect you to claim on your insurance? Given our van is bright yellow someone will presumably be rocking up to a body shop with a bright yellow streak on their front wing but I guess it's too much to hope the police will go to the length of this much investigative work?

Fortunately it looks repairable, but it'll be a toss up between shelling out for the repair and claiming on insurance 

[SA Chris]

Unlikely police will bother. I think they would only bother looking further if a serious crime was committed. And it's easy enough to remove any yellow bits of paint left by hand. Bummer.

[Paul B]

I think your best bet is looking for someone with a camera that saw more. I was forced off the road the other week by a driver overtaking in an inappropriate place. He pulled over in the next lay-by got out and threatened to kick the shit out of me for daring to wobble during the overtake (which itself is a 1:4 hill). Police said they'd check cameras (moorland location) and asked what else I'd expect. They also told me that a car I'd reported as abandoned with all of its windows smashed in, bonnet up and tyres slashed (it looked like it was going to be burnt out but someone got disturbed) on the main road near my house was fine as it was on a private carpark (in response to a photo of it clearly on a road)

[moose]

I recall chatting to a Police Officer at a probable arson of a barn - he said that because of the way laboratory analysis is contracted out and has to be justified, they can often only get lab work done if there is a specific suspect in mind who they are already building a case against.  Nice bloke and the situation maddened him.  He was telling me about crimes that he felt sure had a common culprit but he couldn't get the forensics done (checks of paint samples, footwear prints etc.) to pursue the matter. 

Mind you, this was years ago and the situation might vary between constabularies. That said, I've come across several fires at failing business that were apparent seconds after the owner left the premises (proved by CCTV), and the Police didn't look into them at all (though that's mainly a Fire Service issue).