[Bonjoy]

Good skills whatever the grade! To catch the pocket/crack, do you stick a left foot at the base of the arete and then boooolle for the crack? Is the right hand coming off the low undercut or one of the poor slopers? Intrigued.

[Johnny Brown]

Left hand on sloper around arete, left foot on nib on very base of arete, right hand undercutting roof, boule to pocket in crack. Ben's foot stayed on so it can't be that far.

[Bonjoy]

I did give that sequence a couple of very uncommited attempts when trying it with Bob, but then got involved in the LHS sequence. I bet that's a great move and a bit spicy!
 All we need now is for someone to bag the other project in time for the guide. Once that's done it just leaves the hideous slopers left of The Brigand, now that will be really really hard...

[Jim]

Left hand on sloper around arete, left foot on nib on very base of arete, right hand undercutting roof, boule to pocket mono in crack. Ben's foot stayed on so it can't be that far.

[Ru]

I had another trip here yesterday, mostly to document stuff rather than climb, but I did put my shoes on a bit. At the Copenhagen wall I did a problem that sit starts under the roof, spans to a foot worn sloper, pulls up and (slightly) left to a big polished hold and then does a crux rockover to the break. Re-reading the description of Mermaid, 7c, I think this must be that, but I'd always thought Mermaid was a traverse. There's no real scope for a traverse here so this must be it. The crux is putting your foot by your face on the lip and then rocking onto it - awkward and contorted. Whilst I didn't find it too bad I could imagine anyone tall having a harder time. I think it was 7b for the way I did it and for me, but it might not be for everyone. There's likely to be a heel way too. I still can't find the Chasing the Dragon 7c+ thing.

Also near here is a nice arete on a free-standing boulder about 100 yrds right. The left arete on the RHS (obvious) is not hard but unusual, about  6a?

[travs]

Hi Ru, we saw this as well and think you're right. We also climbed the thin flake in the bay to the left of where we met whilst eliminating the crack to the left of it. It's a little eliminate but a very good 7a.

[Johnny Brown]

Nice work Ru, any idea on timeline for the new guide?

boule to pocket mono in crack.

That's a 'mono' that Ben slapped into with two fingers.

[cofe]

Nice work Ru, any idea on timeline for the new guide?

probably at some point next winter word.

[El Mocho]

Did the proj right of obstructive pensioner today. Lobbed off the jug at the top when my left hand popped, then got distracted when May wee-ed herself with no spare trousers (she was so busy climbing she forgot to go). Having improvised a pair of leggings from my thermal top, did it a couple of goes later (after dropping the top jug again!). I'm not going to beat around the bush with naming this one, it's going to be a shit one straight off - Jumpers for Trousers Fb7b+.

May managed a couple of routes to the right, despite looking like she was wearing some weird kind of bondage outfit (harness with arse poking out of the neckhole of the thermal wasn't such a strong look).

[grimer]

nice one, and well done on the insta-name 

[Ru]

Did the proj right of obstructive pensioner today. Lobbed off the jug at the top when my left hand popped, then got distracted when May wee-ed herself with no spare trousers (she was so busy climbing she forgot to go). Having improvised a pair of leggings from my thermal top, did it a couple of goes later (after dropping the top jug again!). I'm not going to beat around the bush with naming this one, it's going to be a shit one straight off - Jumpers for Trousers Fb7b+.

May managed a couple of routes to the right, despite looking like she was wearing some weird kind of bondage outfit (harness with arse poking out of the neckhole of the thermal wasn't such a strong look).

7b+? Wow, I know I wasn't going well when I tried it, but I thought it was going to be a lot harder. Unless we were using an arse about tit method. How did it go in the end?

[Jim]

Nice one Ben, I think you have lost your mind grades wise tho. This and the other thing are no way 7b+ unless there is some sneaky beta no one else has thought of.
Good knowledge on the jumpers for trousers, I'll bear that in mind incase I ever need to improvise like that

[dave]

good effort, 7b+ does sound surprising, given that on the day when everyone was there such luminaries who eat peices of shit like 7b+ for breakfast got shut down on it.

[Somebody's Fool]

Good knowledge on the jumpers for trousers, I'll bear that in mind incase I ever need to improvise like that

Can't you just undo your flies like everyone else? Prevention is better than the cure and all that...

[Bonjoy]

  Fine effort.
I'm kind of glad you've hugely undergraded this as it sort of proves once and for all that you can't grade (no offence meant), ergo we can discount the numbers on your stuff and just make educated guesses instead. I'm guessing 7c+ for this one and 7c for the other. 

[a dense loner]

there's nothing wrong with that logic bonjoy. it's the same i use to discount anything dan variation on a theme has said to me and i upgrade accordingly to more or less the actual grade 

[El Mocho]

I completely accept that I am shit at grading, and if things get changed either after ascents or even from people simply trying the things that is fine - I think that is the nature of grading stuff, we all climb differently and have different strengths (I think it is fair to say I climb things differently to other people more often than normal, partly due to being short and also due to shuffling)

I kinda graded this comparing to other boulder problems. It felt easier than things like Renegade Master, Slingshot, Western Eyes, Who needs readybreak, Bens groove sit start (caley), Terry etc which are all seen as 7c now?

That said it felt harder than things like the terrace, Famous Grouse, Full Power? (that thing at gardoms which is half of 8 ball is this the right name?) and at least half the 7cs I have done in Font so thinking about it a bit more 7c could be right (it was very warm though, I was tops off - due to giving May my top, rather than trying to impress the Mrs, so I thought it would feel harder than it is so maybe back to 7b for it...)

Shit I should stop now before I get even more confused.

7b+? Wow, I know I wasn't going well when I tried it, but I thought it was going to be a lot harder. Unless we were using an arse about tit method. How did it go in the end?

After a couple of plays the other day (trying high LF in pocket in roof/lip and getting RH on diagonal edge and failing to get to high LH hold and also going to diagonal edge with LH and crossing to poor edge higher with RH and attempting to hold this and go with L to high edge) I did it differently yesterday:

Undercut in roof for L, diag edge for right, get foot jam/drop knee in break with LF, intermediates for LH to get high edge for RH which is a little disapointing, RF over lip and to break. Was trying the last move static and LH popped both times so in the end I just slapped it.

[Jaspersharpe]

I kinda graded this comparing to other boulder problems. It felt easier than things like Renegade Master, Slingshot, Western Eyes, Who needs readybreak, Bens groove sit start (caley), Terry etc which are all seen as 7c now?

This is the crux of the matter isn't it. Pretty much everything has been downgraded to 7C so nothing makes sense any more.

Good effort on these problems Ben.

[slackline]

This is the crux of the matter isn't it. Pretty much everything has been downgraded to 7C so nothing makes sense any more.

Is that the Welford effect?

[Bonjoy]

 

I kinda graded this comparing to other boulder problems. It felt easier than things like Renegade Master, Slingshot, Western Eyes, Who needs readybreak, Bens groove sit start (caley), Terry etc which are all seen as 7c now?

As far as I know they are generally accepted at 7c+ except for WNRB, certainly RM, Slingshot and BG sitter are. If those are the benchmark 7cs you are working on then your grade scale is a grade out. I.e to keep things consistent with the Bransby scale every other problem in the country needs to be downgraded by at least a grade.

That said it felt harder than things like the terrace, Famous Grouse, Full Power? (that thing at gardoms which is half of 8 ball is this the right name?) and at least half the 7cs I have done in Font so thinking about it a bit more 7c could be right (it was very warm though, I was tops off - due to giving May my top, rather than trying to impress the Mrs, so I thought it would feel harder than it is so maybe back to 7b for it...)

The Terrace is (generally considered) high 7c, FG is 7b+/c and Full Power is 8a!
I think the people you are discussing grades with (Pete Robins perchance?) are at odds with the general opinion of the masses. I got a fair few opinions on grades from folk when I did my 7+8 list thingy and the grades I'm quoting are based on these rather than my own view.
 Personally I think it's insanely impractical to try to regrade the entire country. I.e I think the general position of grades in guidebooks (eg Ru's guide) should be used as the benchmark and new things graded accordingly. The alternative being a never ending grade crunch.

[Jaspersharpe]

WORD.

Just cos people are getting stronger doesn't mean the problems are getting easier.

[north_country_boy]

Maybe we should reintroduce the Welford 7B+, and slot it into the scale between 7b-7c+somehwere covering the grade range of 7b-7c+ with just one grade......

Agree with Jasper's sentiment too.....modesty is fuelling the new downgrading phenomenon

[El Mocho]

As far as I know they are generally accepted at 7c+ except for WNRB, certainly RM, Slingshot and BG sitter are. If those are the benchmark 7cs you are working on then your grade scale is a grade out. I.e to keep things consistent with the Bransby scale every other problem in the country needs to be downgraded by at least a grade.

I feel better now I know BG sitter is 7c+, I always thought it was hard.  I think where I go wrong is I often compare a new problem to problems which I found hard for the grade (ie I compare Jumpers for Trousers with BG sitter or Western Eyes and think it is much easier (and also for some reason think they are 7c doh) so give it an easier grade, especially when something like J for T doesn't really suit my strengths.

I think the people you are discussing grades with (Pete Robins perchance?) are at odds with the general opinion of the masses. I got a fair few opinions on grades from folk when I did my 7+8 list thingy and the grades I'm quoting are based on these rather than my own view.
Personally I think it's insanely impractical to try to regrade the entire country. I.e I think the general position of grades in guidebooks (eg Ru's guide) should be used as the benchmark and new things graded accordingly. The alternative being a never ending grade crunch.

I don't think we need to regrade the country (just the rest of the world, we have it spot on  ) I do tend to grade with people like Robins, Caff and JB in mind (not JB for english tec grades, as his idea that it goes above 7b is a complete joke. I have only just learnt to accept 7a exists) who may grade on the harsh side of things, however when I find things like Slingshot hard and then read that they are 7c/7c+ (off beastmaker blog?) that feels at least as harsh as my grading. I think peole like Ned and Dan should have as good an idea of grades as anyone at these levels - they are out there doing it, going to walls, comps and (although I don't know for sure) travelling to other countries to boulder a lot more than me.

I guess I will never accept that 8a should be anything other than utterly desperate and also grade with this in mind.

In my defence things like My Buddy the Apple, 300lbs of Musclin' man, r.i.p. o.d.b, bulb without the chip etc have all stayed at the grades I gave them. I don't think there are any of my problems which have recieved massive up grades or down grades.

[a dense loner]

i'll let you into a little secret, ned and dan haven't got a clue about grades. training very specifically, and very well, is one thing but then unleashing yourself on an unsuspecting world and downgrading nearly every single problem you've done (typically to 7c/7c+) is not the sign of a keen mind. it is lunacy. at least dolph has the good sense to do everything and not dwell on the grades.
people whos grade opinions are not to be listened to must include:
ben
dan
ned
mick
ru
strong steve
note these people are all deemed to be 'modest'
feel free to add to this. no mythical figures please

[Jaspersharpe]

I agree with dense.