[Jim]

Thank fuck for that

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7778110.stm

(not bouldering news I know, but important news for us mancunians.)

[a dense loner]

get in

[Sloper]

Thank fuck for that

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7778110.stm

(not bouldering news I know, but important news for us mancunians.)

Good skills.

[Fiend]

Nice send, dude.

[namnok]

yeah well chuffed

[andy_e]

I'm also really fucking happy that Manchester won't be getting a revolutionary, clean, efficient and extensive transport network costing £2.8bn of European money any more...

[Johnny Brown]

I'm sure it'll turn up again at some point, its not like car ownership is likely to drop.
No suprise that people voted against paying for something that is currently free is it?
This kind of thing will never get in democratically, you need a red ken in the mcr.
Are the idiots winning?

[Sloper]

If the improvements were in place before the vote was taken the result may have been different, however if you ask people right now about paying money in the future for something in the future that might not work or benefit them directly you'll always run the risk of being handed a big 'fuck you' vote.

Personally I think congestion charging is the way forward but not as proposed, the investment in alternatives to driving should be straight forward tax payers investment into national infrastructure not the abortion mooted.  No one drives into london, brum or manchester for fun, they do it because the alternative is a pain and an expensive pain at that.

The idiots were the ones that structured the scheme and the vote in the manner that they did.

[uptown]

Sad day - though hardly suprising. 
I only wish we'd had the chance to get a few billion of investment in public transport this side of the pennines, yet I fear the car lobby would've nulled the vote here too.
Manchester has probably seen off any chances that Leeds, Nottingham, Bristol and Birmingham had of financing similar projects.
It reminds me of what the East London line extension did for our proposed supertram system.

[Falling Down]

This was a cack handed attempt at bribery by Westminster and we've rightfully told them to stick it.

[uptown]

This was a cack handed attempt at bribery by Westminster and we've rightfully told them to stick it.

What would you rather they'd offered you?

[Sloper]

I can't answer for Gordon but I'd say what about building the alternative from general taxation and then taxing the cupid stumts who still want to drive their X5's into town?

[Graeme78]

For me it was a question of the fact they were using the M60 as the outer limit for the charge, so creating the largest congestion zone in the world.
Add in the extended metrolink which isn't the most value for money system in place. Then there's the fact that the metrolink wasn't even going to Oldham town centre, big areas like Bolton and Wigan weren't actually going to benefit significantly from the congestion charge. No matter how you look at it it wasn't value for money.


Then we can add in what a bunch of lying Bastards the government are and how the price would more than likely go up, because the project went over budget, zone would be extended to all large town centres, Bury, Bolton, Wigan, Stockport etc. in the Greater Manchester area.

There apparently is no plan B, how about a central congestion charge which uses the inner ring road as it's limits, seems like a plan to me.
There are a lot of people open to the idea, but the implementation of this scheme was ever so slightly over the top.

[Jim]

For those that don't already know, the GMPTA are the biggest bunch of inept wankers going. The chances are we wouldn't of got the money anyway, just look at the motram bypass or the proposed tram network or the state of the buses in Manchester.
Cheaper buses? - blatant lies
more buses on most popular routes? - only the already over bused routes would of increased in service, leaving the overcrowded, less frequent routes just as they are
More tram stations? - maybe, but they have already used loads of money on compulsory purchase orders, kicked out residents, knocked down their houses and then realised they had no money to build the tram stations and is now waste land.
More bus lanes? - the bus lanes are the major cause of congestion in Manchester, ill thought out and badly designed.
More school buses? - this should of happened anyway with or without a congestion charge
£230,000 spend on an advert that had to be withdrawn for breaking advertising codes as it "directed towards a political end". LINK
The whole system is run by idiots, thankfully, this time they didn't win.
Anybody who thought the congestion charge would of improved public transport is deluded. The main problem with it is that its overpriced and this wouldn't of decreased the cost of it at all, it probably would of increased it TBH

[GCW]

Doesn't affect me now as I no longer work in Manc.
However, I tried to be good and go to work on the train for 6 months.
the service into Manc was shit.  2 carriages at rush hour, too many souls crammed into a packed train which was always late.  Used to take nearly 2 hours from home to work.
It worked out quicker (and cheaper) driving into Manc, and I bet it still would be better even with a congestion charge.  I used to commute on the motorbike, which took an hour and was faaaar cheaper than public transport.

Until these things get sorted, I can understand why there's a No vote.

[abarro81]

I did like it on the radio yesterday when someone had this to say about their lack of shock at the outcome: 'What do you expect, it's like asking the readership of the Sun whether they want hanging brought back.'

[joswald]

Most of those who voted against it are irrational fools. All they hear is the tories saying £1200 a year. They fail to account for the opportunity cost of the time that they would have saved.

[Falling Down]

Most of those who voted against it are irrational fools.

I'm so glad the internet wasn't around when I was a teenager.

[Jim]

How does paying more money save you time?

[Graeme78]

I think it's a reference to the fact that had the congestion charge been voted in, more people would use public transport and hence you would save time on your journey. It's going to take a lot more than a bit of metrolink to get people out of their cars!
Public transport needs to be more affordable, more efficient and also to have an improved service for it to start being attractive to commuters. Also more reliable, I have heard on numerous occasions in the last few weeks how the metro can' make a direct link from Bury to Altrincham because there has been a problem with the track in the centre of Manchester.

[Jim]

Public transport needs to be more affordable, more efficient and also to have an improved service for it to start being attractive to commuters. Also more reliable,

Well said. Unfortunatley the congestion charge addressed none of these which is why it deserved to be voted out.
If the GMPTA were half competant there would of been no need for all this massive waste of money in the first place and all the money spend on the advertising campain could of bought a lot of schoool buses